Unity and the PAC
04-12-2014, 05:28 AM
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,083
[QUOTE=sovt;1621751]
In my 27+ years of airline flying including, three major airlines, two bankruptcy filings, three mergers, three difficult contract negotiations and three furloughs I have never seen or heard of the kind of stuff that has gone on here.
What you guys have conviently forgotten is UAL was dead in the water without CAL. I know you don't wish to hear it but facts are facts. Your company had not invested in their product for over a decade. Aircraft that were marginally maintained much less upgraded.
You guys continually harp about JP being the bad guy. Well at least he fought for the group he was charged to represent. Now that we have one MEC I'm sure I can count on them representing one group; the former L-UAL group
In closing, I am not part of any suit. For a number of reasons it is destined to fail. As to your premiss that the UAL ALPA has done wonders for the pilot profession, well, you are delusional. Remember the summer of 2000. Great job. You guys got the general public, the legal profession and congress so ****ed off that the thought of any work action by any group gets shut down in court. Great job guys.
Yet we didn't get hit with a $45 million fine like APA did for their sickout which happened before C2000. If what UAL ALPA did was so off base then, where were the legal eagles that you claim we enraged? All I did that summer (and everyone else) was fly my published schedule. No picking up open time, coming in on a day off, etc. That is the primary factor that the operation could not handle. Had you been around then, I'll bet you would have done the same thing coming off the ESOP and having the USAir merger just announced.
Originally Posted by hopeSales
In my 27+ years of airline flying including, three major airlines, two bankruptcy filings, three mergers, three difficult contract negotiations and three furloughs I have never seen or heard of the kind of stuff that has gone on here.
What you guys have conviently forgotten is UAL was dead in the water without CAL. I know you don't wish to hear it but facts are facts. Your company had not invested in their product for over a decade. Aircraft that were marginally maintained much less upgraded.
You guys continually harp about JP being the bad guy. Well at least he fought for the group he was charged to represent. Now that we have one MEC I'm sure I can count on them representing one group; the former L-UAL group
In closing, I am not part of any suit. For a number of reasons it is destined to fail. As to your premiss that the UAL ALPA has done wonders for the pilot profession, well, you are delusional. Remember the summer of 2000. Great job. You guys got the general public, the legal profession and congress so ****ed off that the thought of any work action by any group gets shut down in court. Great job guys.
04-12-2014, 06:04 AM
#32
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally Posted by sovt
In my 27+ years of airline flying including, three major airlines, two bankruptcy filings, three mergers, three difficult contract negotiations and three furloughs I have never seen or heard of the kind of stuff that has gone on here.
What you guys have conviently forgotten is UAL was dead in the water without CAL. I know you don't wish to hear it but facts are facts. Your company had not invested in their product for over a decade. Aircraft that were marginally maintained much less upgraded.
You guys continually harp about JP being the bad guy. Well at least he fought for the group he was charged to represent. Now that we have one MEC I'm sure I can count on them representing one group; the former L-UAL group
In closing, I am not part of any suit. For a number of reasons it is destined to fail. As to your premiss that the UAL ALPA has done wonders for the pilot profession, well, you are delusional. Remember the summer of 2000. Great job. You guys got the general public, the legal profession and congress so ****ed off that the thought of any work action by any group gets shut down in court. Great job guys.
What you guys have conviently forgotten is UAL was dead in the water without CAL. I know you don't wish to hear it but facts are facts. Your company had not invested in their product for over a decade. Aircraft that were marginally maintained much less upgraded.
You guys continually harp about JP being the bad guy. Well at least he fought for the group he was charged to represent. Now that we have one MEC I'm sure I can count on them representing one group; the former L-UAL group
In closing, I am not part of any suit. For a number of reasons it is destined to fail. As to your premiss that the UAL ALPA has done wonders for the pilot profession, well, you are delusional. Remember the summer of 2000. Great job. You guys got the general public, the legal profession and congress so ****ed off that the thought of any work action by any group gets shut down in court. Great job guys.
I won't bother responding to the BS but I will respond to the first paragraph because that's the root of your problem. In the 27+ years in the airline business you seem to have made some pretty bad decisions. When you ended up at CAL your career looked as if it was finally coming around. When Jeff, JP and Tilton showed up they brought in UAL and you felt your life taking another nose dive. Especially after JP filled your head with lies. If JP had been honest and played by the rules, all United pilots and that includes you CAL types would be better off in many ways.
You can keep whining, not wearing your ALPA pin and blaming ALPA for all your bad mistakes if you want, but time is moving on and if you do have 29+ years in the business you probably have don't have a lot of that left. I'd suggest you take the time left and get onboard and enjoy some of the your remaining time at UNITED.
04-12-2014, 06:42 AM
#34
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2010
Position: 737 Cap
Posts: 451
[QUOTE=sovt;1621629]
Your response above may make you feel better but the truth of the matter is that the BAT, recall in place.... We're designed and approved by ALPA to get L-UAL pilots to a better place that otherwise would have taken years to get to. Obviously at the expense of L-CAL pilots.
L-UAL ALPA has a long history of screwing other pilot groups to better themselves. These events just continue this long and dispicable history.
WOW. Where to start. The BAT process was a cost saving process designed by UCH to minimize pilot cost. Weigand confirmed that.
I can assure you that it wasn't designed by ALPA to stick it to the CAL pilots. In many cases, it hurt UAL pilots. I understand that you're ****ed off about your spot on the list. Thank JP for that. Your MC so wildly deformed expectations that you feel this way is unfortunate, but absolutely predicted by many. Either live it or $%^#&%^ move on. I'm so tired of this. We're being run by a bunch of hacks yet we're worrying about groping for the scraps left over after they've destroyed the company. This is not going well. No reason to point fingers, but go ahead.
Scott
Originally Posted by jsled
Your response above may make you feel better but the truth of the matter is that the BAT, recall in place.... We're designed and approved by ALPA to get L-UAL pilots to a better place that otherwise would have taken years to get to. Obviously at the expense of L-CAL pilots.
L-UAL ALPA has a long history of screwing other pilot groups to better themselves. These events just continue this long and dispicable history.
I can assure you that it wasn't designed by ALPA to stick it to the CAL pilots. In many cases, it hurt UAL pilots. I understand that you're ****ed off about your spot on the list. Thank JP for that. Your MC so wildly deformed expectations that you feel this way is unfortunate, but absolutely predicted by many. Either live it or $%^#&%^ move on. I'm so tired of this. We're being run by a bunch of hacks yet we're worrying about groping for the scraps left over after they've destroyed the company. This is not going well. No reason to point fingers, but go ahead.
Scott
04-12-2014, 08:12 AM
#35
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: 737 CAPT
Posts: 1,882
Originally Posted by CousinEddie
Yet we didn't get hit with a $45 million fine like APA did for their sickout which happened before C2000. If what UAL ALPA did was so off base then, where were the legal eagles that you claim we enraged? All I did that summer (and everyone else) was fly my published schedule. No picking up open time, coming in on a day off, etc. That is the primary factor that the operation could not handle. Had you been around then, I'll bet you would have done the same thing coming off the ESOP and having the USAir merger just announced.
But DAL pilots did the same thing in the mid-2000s and the judge said they were performing an illegal job action by not picking up open-time. He made it clear to DALALPA they needed to inform their pilots to stop NOT picking up open-time. WHAT? Open-time pick up is a voluntary option. How can a pilot be doing an illegal job action if he flies his legally published full schedule each month? If I want to pick up a trip this month but then decide there are no trips in open-time I like until, I don't know, NEXT YEAR how is that a job action? Management really did a good job convincing the judge of that.
04-12-2014, 09:42 AM
#36
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,083
Originally Posted by EWRflyr
Not that I don't agree with you 100%...
But DAL pilots did the same thing in the mid-2000s and the judge said they were performing an illegal job action by not picking up open-time. He made it clear to DALALPA they needed to inform their pilots to stop NOT picking up open-time. WHAT? Open-time pick up is a voluntary option. How can a pilot be doing an illegal job action if he flies his legally published full schedule each month? If I want to pick up a trip this month but then decide there are no trips in open-time I like until, I don't know, NEXT YEAR how is that a job action? Management really did a good job convincing the judge of that.
But DAL pilots did the same thing in the mid-2000s and the judge said they were performing an illegal job action by not picking up open-time. He made it clear to DALALPA they needed to inform their pilots to stop NOT picking up open-time. WHAT? Open-time pick up is a voluntary option. How can a pilot be doing an illegal job action if he flies his legally published full schedule each month? If I want to pick up a trip this month but then decide there are no trips in open-time I like until, I don't know, NEXT YEAR how is that a job action? Management really did a good job convincing the judge of that.
04-12-2014, 03:44 PM
#37
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,866
Originally Posted by EWRflyr
He made it clear to DALALPA they needed to inform their pilots to stop NOT picking up open-time. WHAT? Open-time pick up is a voluntary option.
04-14-2014, 03:10 PM
#39
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,083
Originally Posted by Moombabeach
I quit my PAC contribution when ALPA decided to keep 5% of my retro pay/signing bonus. ALPA is holding my money, interest free, I'm not giving them anymore. Give me my money.....
04-15-2014, 09:09 AM
#40
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Position: 737 CA
Posts: 2,750
Originally Posted by Moombabeach
I quit my PAC contribution when ALPA decided to keep 5% of my retro pay/signing bonus. ALPA is holding my money, interest free, I'm not giving them anymore. Give me my money.....
Sled
