APC225

It's hit or miss with QOL. Your example is why we need protective reserve rules, not for the pilot who is in a seat that never gets used. Also, the abused seats tend to migrate around the system over seasons and years, depending on many factors like hiring, moving equipment around, and new/old equipment coming/going. That's why everyone should look closely at reserve rules when voting. It eventually comes around. Even above the gline folks on the 747 will see reserve when those start going away and the base starts to shrink.

oldmako

ST,

I guess it has become the knee-jerk, vacuous litmus test around here. I am glad that I changed horses, because this flimsy agreement will benefit ME more, and that's becoming all that's all thats important within this group eh?

How depressing.

Flyguppy

NONE of this was on the table. We knew that going in. This isn't section 6.

There needs to be reserve improvements....no doubt. Not gonna happen until full section 6.

oldmako

Unless the airline industry and or the economy tanks, full section 6 negotiations are now now light years away, so we may as well just forget about it. Lucy has taken the football and will not return for a long time. To think that "we'll get em next time" is simply too depressing. We're too feckless to get anything, at anytime. Our leverage has been completely squandered for a minimal pay raise. Another epic win for the pilots of UA brought to you by Jay. They'll be laughing in Willis if this gets approved, again.

SpecialTracking

What is the cost born by us for leaving those sect 6 items on the table? Knowing that would aid in my decision on this extension.

APC225

Considering they said they were going to look at reserve, it's surprising they didn't tweak some small item to at least give the appearance, if only cosmetic, that they talked about it. The fact that nothing came of it makes me think they don't respect the problem enough to at least throw a meatless bone our way. "How can [they] be so obtuse?" - Andy Dufresne

APC225

If it gets voted down maybe in the second try they'll limit FSBs to only during declared irregular operations.

757Driver

With the current leverage we possess regarding ULF and the changes the company needs to to cover it, why the hell don't we just insist that we start Section 6 openers right now? These paltry raises wouldn't suit me when we do start Section 6 openers so why would we cave and give them to them now?

oldmako

I like this part..."cave and give" Someone gets it!

gettinbumped

ST,

Your other post made sense to me as well. I think you're exactly right that we will all have to weigh whether the $$ is enough for us to vote yes now, or just punt and wait for a full section 6 negotiation over the next few years. I haven't decided yet. The money wasn't enough to make it an obvious choice. I'll be interested to hear what the negotiating committee has to say about reserve and why there aren't any changes (if indeed that's the case). Obviously there is a cost to those changes (they cost analyze everything during the negotiation), and must have felt the cost wasn't worth the gains and "spent" it elsewhere. I have a buddy who is an A320 Captain on reserve and he is already a firm no ONLY because on the reserve issue. I did have to remain him that there is no guarantee that reserve rules will change under Section 6 either.... He also felt the $39 million to furloughed pilots was a waste. After he said that I stopped talking because I realized the "I want mine" was strong enough in him that further discussion would be futile.

Reserve sucks. Commuting to reserve really sucks, which is why I don't bid up to something that pays more but would see me below the G-Line. Just for the sake of the benefit of those new hires here who are on reserve, it used to REALLLLLLLY suck. It wasn't long ago that there was no such thing as short call. I would commute down to LAX at the beginning of my 6 day stretch and there I would sit in the crash pad for all 6 days.... whether I was used or not. Moveable days off on global reserve have been there forever, so I'm guessing is a VERY expensive item to change and probably deemed not worth the negotiating capital. The 1 FDO on basic reserve is new, and could probably be changed. We used to have FSB all the time, but that practice seems to come and go, but it's not really effective for the company except in limited cases because it burns reserves so fast so I'm guessing it won't be too prevalent. The one thing that we seem to have lost in the last contract was a limit of 8 short calls a month. We gave that up in exchange for being paid for un-used short calls, something we never had until this latest deal. I'm guessing the thinking was that the cost would keep the company from doing it. Clearly that hasn't been the case. We probably could have gotten the limit back of 8 short calls, but I'm guessing the data showed that the number of pilots who actually have 8 unused short calls per month is really small. I would very much like to see a limit of 4 or 5, but it may be very expensive to bargain for. Point being, reserve can suck, but that's sort of the nature of the beast being on reserve. Particularly from afar. It's a lot better than it used to be!

I appreciate the rational arguments on here ST (and others). I'll wait to see what the guys in the room say before I make up my mind whether to vote for or against this. I was hoping for a little more, but is it enough to wait 3 or 4 years for a full section 6 and risk a downturn, etc and loss of immediate leverage? I don't know yet. That's the question I'll have to answer in the coming weeks should the MEC vote to send this out for MR.