There's allot more to it then "it's protected by Federal Law."

1. The airlines go out and specifically recruit military types. They hunt for and preferentially hire military folks. So, if this is your game plan, then the airline should understand federal law and insure its done right.

2. The union is in the same boat. There are contractual provisions within the cba that specifically have tentacles into the application and use of military leave: scheduling, employment status, and pay/benefits. The military pilots are ALPA members too, therefore the association should stand ready and willing to address their issues.


Probably over a 22 year career in the military have I seldom drilled on anything but the first and third weekends of the month. Exceptions occur the more rank I got and the more responsibility I took on. That is a shared experience by all military officers (guard/reserve/AD). I have had occasions where we were doing 24/7 ops and that was not only an inconvenience by my employer, but to my family. The deployments, etc. took a major toll. Was there short notice MLLV? Yes. Was it a regular thing? No.

What started the angry and acrimonious relationship between the union, management, and the military pilots was the institution of PBS. How, and when a pilot inserts military leave is a big deal to PBS. When you have the union carrying the company's water as it relates to PBS and the military, that is when I stop listening to the union. My association needs to represent the dues paying member (individually) not some stupid PBS program that they bought into hook line and sinker.

On the pay and benefits side. It's simple. Just follow the law. It was evidently not hard for the DAL and UAL MEC to do, so why was it so hard for L CAL and the CAL MEC? This is where those "relationships" come in, this is why CAL got sued. The individuals on the management side that were named in the suit all disappeared within 8 weeks of the suit being filed. Coincidence? I think not. The union should have done a better job holding management accountable. The military folks should have never been forced to sue to protect themselves.

Use of mil leave is "protected." But, really squadrons don't have the spare money laying around to cut orders that they don't need as a matter of either military necessity, or training/proficiency. And, I for one didn't have the free time to just go to the squadron and hang out in my spare time. For the most part, ANG duty was either a push or a pay cut for me. We all do it to serve our country. And, in particular, our country can't afford to stand up a full time military so the real work load is on the guard/reserve now.

 

I agree.

Prior to PBS in CAL's contract "02" which was adopted in 2005, never did a CAL CP or ACP call a military member about military leave. Once PBS was implemented and the staffing and reserve coverage cut to the bone, then the CAL CP's and ACP's started to harass military pilots, especially if you gave them the orders for next month during, or after the PBS run. Then, the union started to "echo" the company's sentiments about MLLV and started getting nasty with the guard/reserve guys and then the pilots stopped engaging with and talking with the military liaison committee. Heck, prior to PBS, there wasn't even a military liaison union committee. ALPA really dropped the ball on that.

I think it's better now. The new group of managers probably got the memo to play nice. As I recall with the adoption of PBS, CAL essentially attrited over 400 pilots to run the staffing model tight. No meat left on the bone. Remember the video....."not enough co-pilots."?? This video was at the height of the CAL pilot shortage. A pilot shortage that occurred because of people like Stank and his comments about the size of the Church parking lot, and becaue the military guys worked very hard that summer during the surge. PBS was the least of the military guys concerns that year.

 

There really is a growing trend in America to be anti-military. Look at politics and the political climate. The democrats are very anti-military. Those communities and states that are very left are very anti-military.

I have friends in the Portland ANG that don't wear their military uniforms to and from work. They don't want to be seen in their communities wearing the uniform because they get too many ugly comments and looks. And they especially tell their kids to be quiet about what mom/dad do.

Our country only appreciates the military when there's a tough job to do (not in all places, but it's getting worse). Yes, it's the cost of doing business, and yes, freedom's not for free, but it's all great until you start quantifying the business expense, then management isn't so keen on it. And of course it's worse when your union says "the military guys are screwing their buddies, and taking money away from the non military guys" Once' the union buys into this left of center garbage then it's time to say "fights on."

If the union and the company want to fight about military leave and federal law, then so be it. Let's fight. I am tired of hearing "but I support the military." Only to be rooted out as a liar when you put your money on the table and ante up.

 

Well said. But as I said earlier, it seems, and I hope, that the relationship is getting better with Oscar and the new managers since last year.

You would think that with an industry that relies so heavily on ex military/guard/reserve, that this would be a no brainer.

 

I think it is a two way street with the mil guys (I am one). I have been a new hire twice at UAL. Once as an ex-mil guy in 95, once as a u-hire at lCAL in 2013. Both new hire classes had a reasonable number of ex-mil guys and gals.

There was a huge difference in attitudes between the groups. The first was glad to have a job at UAL and hoped it worked out with their reserve jobs.

The 2013 class was vastly different. They came armed with legaleze from USERRA (sorry don't know how to spell it). Many came just to get their name on the list, and go back on active duty, or to get their B fund contributions rolling, or re-rolling, if they were re-called from furlough and going back on mil-leave.

Is that their right? Yes. Is it "right"? Not really. They are gaming a system meant to help them, and to aid them in serving their country.

Are they within their rights? Yes. But they are creating an adversarial relationship between reservists, and the company.

I heard from an old friend at Alaska that the actions of a lot of locally based reservist's "materially affected" hiring practices at Alaska. Too many drill periods over Christmas, New Year, etc.

 

Really? If anything, it is the opposite. We military types are worshipped by the politicians (both parties) and civilians. To the point that it is embarrasing. Take that chip off your shoulder.

 

"For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' ``Chuck him out, the brute!''
But it's ``Saviour of 'is country,'' when the guns begin to shoot;"

--Rudyard Kipling

 

Things are a changing out there. Science based FAR 117 is getting ready to raise it's ugly head again.

Buddy of mine is CO of the local ANG squadron and he has a lot to say about the current system. He gave an example from this last weekend. Junior International WB FO uses the Drill weekend card to get the weekend off. PBS awards him the weekend off as it should. It also awarded him a 3 day international trip that got him in at 0700 on friday morning. Pilot walks across the airport and picks up a 24 hour Alert Duty knowing that he can sleep off the fatigue he just experienced. Saturday morning he does his normal weekend duty which included a flying mission. Monday morning PBS gave him another 3 day International trip. This pilot was totally worthless to the Guard and the Company he works for and to the Civilians and Customers he is supposed to serve. The Guard units are starting to implement Fatigue Mitigation Programs that will stop this abuse and dangerous practice.

FAR 117 covers all commercial flying activities and duties. Flight Instructing, Charter Flying, Corporate Flying, Crop Dusting, Tours, and all other paid activities. The FAA is very seriously thinking about adding Military Flying and related duties as one of these activities. That will change everything.

 

Thanks for the well-worn explanation. I'm a war vet too and I know when to use a smoke grenade when you need to cover a fire teams exit from an overwhelming force. I think you just popped one.

 

I think you are right.

It really depends on the culture that the leader wants to implement. Oscar seems to want to make love and not war. If pilots get treated right, I don't think they'll drop too many last minute mil leave requests.

PBS, and its "rule set" runs our lives as pilots. If the tittie-twisters who run PBS back off the torque then mil guys will play nice. If they keep turning to the right, more guys will be walking around with their USSERA fact sheets, and copies of the CFR's. Oscar has probably figured this out.

All of our problems really started under Contract '02 and the resulting staffing model that cut reserve coverage by over 60%. You can't absorb operational problems without reserves, and you can't re-crew a trip that dropped for mil leave if you don't have reserves.