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Old 02-15-2018, 05:48 PM   #11  
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Default First year pay

IMO

$200k gross income isnít ďeasyĒ on second year pay. Perhaps if you include international override and perdiem, and get some late arrival pay and premiums you cam get there...definitely can get there if you include the 12% DC for a total compensation figure.

Then again, maybe Iím underachieving [emoji857]
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Old 02-15-2018, 06:36 PM   #12  
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IMO

$200k gross income isnít ďeasyĒ on second year pay. Perhaps if you include international override and perdiem, and get some late arrival pay and premiums you cam get there...definitely can get there if you include the 12% DC for a total compensation figure.

Then again, maybe Iím underachieving [emoji857]
Most 2017 hires will make more than $200k without trying. There are 12 year FOs pushing $400k.
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Old 02-15-2018, 07:27 PM   #13  
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UPS will ask in the interview, ď What have you done to prepare for first year pay?Ē

Better have an answer formulated, or you may not look very interested.

Second year base pay this year of the CBA is $171,327.00

Thatís only counting the 13 pay periods of 75 hours and nothing else.
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Old 02-15-2018, 07:44 PM   #14  
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Originally Posted by Ray Kinsella View Post
Most 2017 hires will make more than $200k without trying. There are 12 year FOs pushing $400k.
Sorry, this is completely inaccurate information. Like Boiler said, most guys I talk to in the 2-3 year range are pulling in 170-180K, gross. Consistent international drivers and/or guys who worked extra pushed into the 190's factoring in late arrivals and other premiums. I heard of 1 guy breaking 200 and that included a bunch of JA (time and a half callouts) Were you counting the signing bonus $$ from April 2017? I wasn't. Factoring in B-Fund (12% defined benefit)?

12 year FO's who work the system: I talked to one senior FO and he got close to 300K but that's with a whole lot of work. 400K?...dude, most captains I talk to don't even hit that number.

You post genuine info Ray but this one was way off base.

Last edited by FTFFv2; 02-15-2018 at 08:05 PM. Reason: grammerly
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Old 02-15-2018, 08:02 PM   #15  
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To the OP,

With UPS you either deal with year 1 pay or go elsewhere. If you take the brown pill it becomes a simple matter of managing money output vs. money supply. If $45K exceeds your total income then your best bet is to cut all non essential costs for a year and then try to take an interest free loan from family or friends to cover the remainder. If not, can you get a good deal on an equity line of credit or something with low rates and fees? Flying extra is hit or miss at UPS and not really worth it for the RJ rates they pay year 1. If your spouse can work even a part time gig that would help out immensely. I heard of an odd guy or two doing a side gig: one uber driver, another bartended, while a bunch did/do the ANG thing. Where there is a will there is a way... There is advice out there to take a loan out year 1 to max out your 401K ( search the B&G if on property and interested-it is something I wish I would have done).
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Old 02-15-2018, 08:34 PM   #16  
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Itís hard to fathom this discussion.

At the risk of sounding like my depression era father:

-starting pay was 26k until two contracts ago
-most of us didnít break 100k until year 5
-came here with wife and daughter
-making 200k your second year is highly probable

Iíve noticed, and so has the company with more than a few fired first year for entitlement issues, new hires with a different view point of what it is to be on probation. Itís been a noticeable shift in attitude.
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Old 02-15-2018, 08:35 PM   #17  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FTFFv2 View Post
Sorry, this is completely inaccurate information. Like Boiler said, most guys I talk to in the 2-3 year range are pulling in 170-180K, gross. Consistent international drivers and/or guys who worked extra pushed into the 190's factoring in late arrivals and other premiums. I heard of 1 guy breaking 200 and that included a bunch of JA (time and a half callouts) Were you counting the signing bonus $$ from April 2017? I wasn't. Factoring in B-Fund (12% defined benefit)?

12 year FO's who work the system: I talked to one senior FO and he got close to 300K but that's with a whole lot of work. 400K?...dude, most captains I talk to don't even hit that number.

You post genuine info Ray but this one was way off base.
We were talking about this on the js a couple weeks ago.
3 yr domestic 75 FO made $205k last year not picking up any JA.
12 yr 74 FO made $340k last year but he worked the system, picked up JA ect...
And BTW a lot of the captains that i speak to are over $400k.
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Old 02-16-2018, 02:55 AM   #18  
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As far as I know, no outside commercial flying and certainly not because of 117. It's not in the contract or the Far's, just FOM policy. I know at least one guy justifying part 91 corporate flying on his off time by saying it's not commercial
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Old 02-16-2018, 03:00 AM   #19  
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The entitlement attitude among some of the first years guys did come up on my training center visit. No one cares that your last place had better equipment or how they did things. You're here now. Learn how they want you to do the job. They're starting to get picky about attitude as a few recent first year firings has proven.
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Old 02-16-2018, 03:03 AM   #20  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyphisher View Post
Itís hard to fathom this discussion.

At the risk of sounding like my depression era father:

-starting pay was 26k until two contracts ago
-most of us didnít break 100k until year 5
-came here with wife and daughter
-making 200k your second year is highly probable

Iíve noticed, and so has the company with more than a few fired first year for entitlement issues, new hires with a different view point of what it is to be on probation. Itís been a noticeable shift in attitude.
It's the f..kin snowflakes me me me attitude you're seeing. Way different than 20 yrs ago.
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