First year pay
02-18-2018, 08:29 AM
#51
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2014
Posts: 90
?
I don’t know you. Don’t know who you are or your airline experience/background.
I’ve been flying professionally for 35 years including military and 4 airlines. I think I have a viewpoint “worth” considering.
Please enlighten me with your experience to know what has historically driven wages in this industry. Please provide some valid reasons through your own decades of first hand experience what is “worth” anything.
I’m sitting on the edge of my seat in anticipation of learning how things really are 2stage.
I don’t know you. Don’t know who you are or your airline experience/background.
I’ve been flying professionally for 35 years including military and 4 airlines. I think I have a viewpoint “worth” considering.
Please enlighten me with your experience to know what has historically driven wages in this industry. Please provide some valid reasons through your own decades of first hand experience what is “worth” anything.
I’m sitting on the edge of my seat in anticipation of learning how things really are 2stage.
02-18-2018, 08:42 AM
#52
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Mar 2016
Posts: 173
Gents,
Thanks for all the replies. I do appreciate it! When I wrote my initial post, I really wanted to get a realistic number of what a new hire can expect during year 1 and 2. As a family man with car loans,mortgage and a home stay wife I have to take everything into consideration.
I think, I have an idea now.
Speaking of management, how strictly are they honoring your new contract? Do you guys have lots of grievances on file?
Thanks for all the replies. I do appreciate it! When I wrote my initial post, I really wanted to get a realistic number of what a new hire can expect during year 1 and 2. As a family man with car loans,mortgage and a home stay wife I have to take everything into consideration.
I think, I have an idea now.
Originally Posted by PastV1by10
This whole thing is embarrassing. We wonder why management hates us and wants to contract our flying to others doing it cheaper.
Speaking of management, how strictly are they honoring your new contract? Do you guys have lots of grievances on file?
02-18-2018, 09:12 AM
#54
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2014
Posts: 90
You didn’t answer my questions 2stage. What are your credentials to state what is “worth” anything? What is your airline/industry experience?
If you’re going to stick your head out of the foxhole at least have some ammunition of experience to define “worth”.
The essay of your experience will be “worth” the wait for me to learn.
In the meantime, I invite anyone trying to get on at any airline of their choice to work hard, stay focused, and not assume you are “worth” anything more than what you do for yourself and your family in that moment of effort.
And hopefully 2stage will bring his/her experience to the discussion to help you do that.
If you’re going to stick your head out of the foxhole at least have some ammunition of experience to define “worth”.
The essay of your experience will be “worth” the wait for me to learn.
In the meantime, I invite anyone trying to get on at any airline of their choice to work hard, stay focused, and not assume you are “worth” anything more than what you do for yourself and your family in that moment of effort.
And hopefully 2stage will bring his/her experience to the discussion to help you do that.
02-18-2018, 09:41 AM
#56
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2014
Posts: 90
Boiler: ‘91.
I took the job for 11k. Upgraded to captain (lol) in 6 weeks. Raise to 16k. Stayed there for 6 months before moving to the next workers paradise at 17k / year.
Point being that I took the job to begin with.
And to the op original question.....for the first two years here at UPS I drove a limo on the side to make ends meet. I was “that guy”, in a suit, holding up a sign at the airport looking for my client. Once I became an IOE instructor I stopped the limo driving.
You do what you gotta do. And although there are those millenials that will do that....I think there’s been a shift of the percentage that are willing to do that.
All five of my letters of recommendations to UPS have been hired by UPS. That’s 5 for 5. The last one being a millenial. That worked his as$ off through the years and earned his slot at UPS as a recent new hire. And he will be the first to tell you what “worth” is. He too did what he needed to do.
I took the job for 11k. Upgraded to captain (lol) in 6 weeks. Raise to 16k. Stayed there for 6 months before moving to the next workers paradise at 17k / year.
Point being that I took the job to begin with.
And to the op original question.....for the first two years here at UPS I drove a limo on the side to make ends meet. I was “that guy”, in a suit, holding up a sign at the airport looking for my client. Once I became an IOE instructor I stopped the limo driving.
You do what you gotta do. And although there are those millenials that will do that....I think there’s been a shift of the percentage that are willing to do that.
All five of my letters of recommendations to UPS have been hired by UPS. That’s 5 for 5. The last one being a millenial. That worked his as$ off through the years and earned his slot at UPS as a recent new hire. And he will be the first to tell you what “worth” is. He too did what he needed to do.
02-18-2018, 11:34 AM
#57
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Mar 2016
Posts: 173
Originally Posted by flyphisher
Boiler: ‘91.
And to the op original question.....for the first two years here at UPS I drove a limo on the side to make ends meet. I was “that guy”, in a suit, holding up a sign at the airport looking for my client. Once I became an IOE instructor I stopped the limo driving.
You do what you gotta do. And although there are those millenials that will do that....I think there’s been a shift of the percentage that are willing to do that.
All five of my letters of recommendations to UPS have been hired by UPS. That’s 5 for 5. The last one being a millenial. That worked his as$ off through the years and earned his slot at UPS as a recent new hire. And he will be the first to tell you what “worth” is. He too did what he needed to do.
And to the op original question.....for the first two years here at UPS I drove a limo on the side to make ends meet. I was “that guy”, in a suit, holding up a sign at the airport looking for my client. Once I became an IOE instructor I stopped the limo driving.
You do what you gotta do. And although there are those millenials that will do that....I think there’s been a shift of the percentage that are willing to do that.
All five of my letters of recommendations to UPS have been hired by UPS. That’s 5 for 5. The last one being a millenial. That worked his as$ off through the years and earned his slot at UPS as a recent new hire. And he will be the first to tell you what “worth” is. He too did what he needed to do.
Last edited by cskafan123; 02-18-2018 at 11:45 AM.
02-18-2018, 11:52 AM
#58
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2015
Posts: 299
Originally Posted by CactusCrew
Then there is this from Ray K ...
If you are lurking and trying to figure out how 2nd year will be, FFTF is using numbers that he actually experienced. Ray K looks good on paper, but nearly impossible to achieve in reality.
Have either of them been JUNIOR in ANC ? That is the assumption that Ray is basing his numbers on. To get to those high figures, you will have to live in ANC, with the associated costs and hassles that go with that. Then you will have to hold the most high paying senior lines (hmmm, how's that going to happen bidding 200/250). Many of your trips will then have to return to base a few days late to get the premium payments. And after that late arrival, you will have to pick up "moderate open time or JAs", on less days off. Once again, I have to wonder if either of these guys have ever been junior in ANC ?
Is it doable ? Maybe. But I don't think anyone junior that commutes to ANC in 2nd year will be able to, or want to spend that much time on the road. Or be that lucky with bidding.
Reality is closer to what FFTF has mentioned, I'd plan on that. Too many assumptions in the numbers Ray has mentioned. I was junior in ANC for years, it wasn't easy to get as much credit as Ray claims.
Either way, you have to get hired and make it through the first year
If you are lurking and trying to figure out how 2nd year will be, FFTF is using numbers that he actually experienced. Ray K looks good on paper, but nearly impossible to achieve in reality.
Have either of them been JUNIOR in ANC ? That is the assumption that Ray is basing his numbers on. To get to those high figures, you will have to live in ANC, with the associated costs and hassles that go with that. Then you will have to hold the most high paying senior lines (hmmm, how's that going to happen bidding 200/250). Many of your trips will then have to return to base a few days late to get the premium payments. And after that late arrival, you will have to pick up "moderate open time or JAs", on less days off. Once again, I have to wonder if either of these guys have ever been junior in ANC ?
Is it doable ? Maybe. But I don't think anyone junior that commutes to ANC in 2nd year will be able to, or want to spend that much time on the road. Or be that lucky with bidding.
Reality is closer to what FFTF has mentioned, I'd plan on that. Too many assumptions in the numbers Ray has mentioned. I was junior in ANC for years, it wasn't easy to get as much credit as Ray claims.
Either way, you have to get hired and make it through the first year
02-18-2018, 03:24 PM
#59
Where's my Mai Tai?
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: fins to the left, fins to the right
Posts: 1,731
Originally Posted by Ray Kinsella
Geez, man. I’m not spouting off fake news. I know based on my own experience and that of guys recently off probation. The numbers I posted aren’t debatable.
I had a probie ask if I was going to make about 350k last year. I told him no chance and he stated how one guy had shown him his earning statement with that.
I'm senior to that FO and didn't come close.
02-18-2018, 03:25 PM
#60
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: F/O
Posts: 328
Originally Posted by cskafan123
Gents,
Speaking of management, how strictly are they honoring your new contract? Do you guys have lots of grievances on file?
Speaking of management, how strictly are they honoring your new contract? Do you guys have lots of grievances on file?
Incase your not, they will try and steal every part of the contract, and there are numerous grievances.
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