flyguy23

Just want to point out Brown does provide lodging for new hires.

CL300

I’m certainly not trying to justify our poor first year pay, I had to suck it up and deal with it like everyone else in property. A wise man once told me, “First year pay is what UPS thinks we’re worth, second year pay is what the IPA can negotiate for us.”

I’m merely providing a short term solution if the guys wife stays at home with no kids around. Seems short sighted and lazy if she doesn’t want to contribute to a short term problem for a long term gain in that scenario. Just my opinion, if the guy doesn’t like it, don’t apply here.

threeighteen

A family who can’t find a way to make sacrifices to afford one year at first year pay likely can’t find a way to afford to fly the contract during negotiations or endure a strike. A low first year pay is a good way to weed people like that out, it won’t catch all of them but it is a good start. If the company wants to bump year one pay, the pilot group better get something for it.

flyguy23

Id say those making six figures pre UPS that will struggle during year 1 would do just fine making min during negotiations at over 200k. As for a strike, I’d wager a fairly large % of our group won’t be able to successfully endure a prolonged strike. That’s not to say any would cross, but it would likely ruin a decent number.

ClncClarence

Oh that’s great. For some reason I thought they didn’t. I guess Purp is the last holdout on that one.

Joachim

Whether or not the first year pay rate is justified is really a moot point. It is what it is and we’ll see how much we’re will to give up in order to change it during the next round of negotiations. Until then I think that is important to point out that asking for advice regarding first year pay shouldn’t be met with anger as if speaking of the subject is an insult. Our candidates come from career destination level employers and most do not have budgets that commensurate with the average American household. Most are providers for families and often the spouse have no or reduced income potential due to the nature of the pilot profession. You cannot compare first year pay to the average US income (which includes unemployed, underemployed, and retirees) and say you should be able to run a household on that. If you still aren’t convinced take a look at the governments estimate to run a household according to size. The average household income isn’t going to cut it.

First year can be stressful for several reasons. Take out a 401k loan, borrow against your house, do what you need to do. Lay low year one and work your butt off year two. It will be worth it in the end.

Best of luck.

FTv3

-Sent from my hands-free device aboard my $100K+ luxury sedan enroute to my local airport where I’m going to take my personal plane for a joy ride before a little brunch at the country club.

FTv3

I kid, 18. I kid.

I think the point Cardboard was trying to make is that if you can’t find a way to make it work year 1, then…well, I don’t know what “then,” but I think most people out there should be able to find a way to pull year 1 out of their arse if they needed to and most importantly, if they were willing to. There are avenues, like low interest credit (amongst others), avail that can provide a life line of cash. Some guys during my time worked a second job (Uber drivers). The bigger question is why should one want to? Why should one potentially go into a significant amount of debt, endure a ton of stress, etc., just to secure a job which is arguably no better than its peers? You can say year 2 pay scales and beyond justify the means but for a lot of us it took multiple (painful) years to fully recover from year 1 pay. None of my friends at DAL who got hired around the same time as I got hired here are banking much different than me, their schedules are different but it’s not like mine are blowing theirs out of the water (vacation and medical bennies not withstanding). United is apparently offering a hiring bonus now. Seriously, you gotta sincerely want to come to ups to accept yr1 pay. And that’s exactly what UPS is exploiting.

Swedish Blender

Nothing.

It has been brought up by the IPA previously. Probationary pilots are technically not covered by the IPA and UPS has not shown interest in increasing first year pay

767pilot

I don't know where this trope comes from the first year pilots aren't covered by the ipa. They most certainly are although as individuals they have no access to the grievance process. Their pay and working conditions are spelled out in the contract signed by both parties. Pay sucks, the rest is the same as the rest of us live under.

We did our best to get the company to change the pay, they wouldn't. Each side has it's line in the sand, you know where ours are, this is one of theirs. If the market forces change it, it'll change.