whalesurfer

I'm leaning toward a yes but barely, 55% or so. I give this TA a C+
I will definitely attend the road show before I make up my mind.

Pilot7576 - I too am a half-full kind of person but I also think a union should protect the weakest union members first and foremost. I might have misunderstood the TA and I'll keep researching but for now I have some major reservations.
How those on long-term medical got weaseled out of bonuses for example is beyond my comprehension? Those are the pilots who need the money the most! Our long term medical has already been slashed from 67 to 60% and now they can't take on part time jobs without off-setting the earned money (i.e. they'd be working for free).
Factor in cobra payments they have to pay and what's left? Just an embarrassing admission that they won't be getting any bonuses at all. I sincerely hope I'm misunderstanding this part and if I do I'll come back here to apologize.

Also, many senior pilots sacrificed greatly for the junior IPA members by taking time off, not picking up open time, giving up sick time, etc. Yes, we all did or most of us did. ..and now, some of the very same pilots who retired just days or weeks prior to the TA (i.e. stilly sprague and MANY, MANY others) get cut out of any retro pay/bonus? Did I get that right? Is that what you mean by "industry leading"?

I firmly believe that MOU was the right thing to do because we're a union and we take care of each other. Well, I feel the very same way about taking care of those who led us in the past who've now retired. They held the line for us and we should hold the line for them.
..and frankly, if this is really the best we can do then personally I'd be willing to get a smaller, maybe even much smaller bonus as long as those who retired during the duration of the 2006 contract got compensated for being the great and the supporting union members that they were. It's the right thing to do.

I have a great deal of respect for Bob T and the entire EB and because of this I'll probably be voting yes. However if I do vote yes it won't be because this is an "industry leading" contract - because it is not. It's a good contract in some areas and not so good in others.
This is not a 5-year contract but a 10-year contract and everyone knows that. Just the way the 2006 6-year (LOL!!!) contract turned out to be a 10-year contract.

For example, the Scab force issue hasn't been resolved. The job gains in the training department are a plus but I guess we left the issue of the remaining instantaneous ûber-captains for the next contract - again.

We have the very best conditions one could ever dream off for a great, fantastic contract - an accelerating pilot shortage, improving economy, and greatly enhanced contracts at several major passenger airlines.

We SHOULD be number one! ..and not at the very end of the contract and only for a few months before some other airline's new contract supersedes us, again!

We have by far the toughest schedules, fly the most challenging time zone flipper routes, carry hazmat, millions of lithium batteries and work for an employer who truly despises us. Yes, we should be number one, not almost number one, or number one for a brief nano-second..

Shaggy1970

Wonder how the conversation on the B&G would be going if we got the same exact TA at 290 dollars/hour instead of 300. The love fest is a joke, most people see this not as an industry anything but the lesser of all evils. Its going to be another long ten years for the most junior that have been taking in the shorts already if this thing passes.

Browniedriver

So did you go to the roadshow, read the FAQs or call the EB to get your questions answered? If not why aren't you trying harder to get your questions answered???? You can call me anything you want but just answer the question? You have concerns...get the answers. Just saying....

Pilot7576

Whalesurfer,

Just because I'm voting yes on this TA doesn't mean I don't care about those issues you mentioned. According to the EB/NC, those issues did not score high on the surveys from the membership for negotiation. Whether out of ignorance or lack of interest, retro retirement took a back seat to many other issues. Not to mention no other airline has ever successfully negotiated for retro retirement...there was no precedent.

The signing bonus follows along with what fedex has had in their last two major contracts. Their bonus was prorated for cpt time versus fo time and wide versus narrowbody. Our bonus last time was a cpt bonus and fo bonus with no discriminators. Is it more fair or less?....last time I had an fo just off probation tell me he deserved the 60k rather than the 40k because his vote counted the same as mine. Kind of hard to argue with someone who has that sense of entitlement knowing that the signing bonus was a retro replacement.

Do I wish the EB/NC got everything for everybody and left no one behind? Of course, but I have to trust that they tried and came up short based on what the membership told them were the priorities.

The TA was negotiated for the group as a whole, now it is up to each individual to validate whether it is good enough for them. I'm not going to tell anyone how to vote (duh!) but realize that if we go back to the table we are likely to lose a lot of what we have fought for in this TA..not to mention losing the time value of money. If enough people cared about those issues you mentioned, the TA would get rejected...but I think the survey reflected what the membership stated in their surveys and that is what the EB/NC handed us.

JMO

Pilot7576

Swedish,

I think you are mistaking cheerleading for clearing up misperceptions...there is no reason or cause to cheerlead on a Delta thread about our TA. Delta pilots don't get to vote on it.


JTF

HeavyJet

Such a lame ass answer. Were you here during the 06 negotiations? Everyone here was educated that the NMB will "lie" to both parties to get a deal done. I would never accept a low ball first offer which this turd is.

I think the EB has presented well what was told to them in DC, however this T/A is not acceptable to me for another 10 years of BS. Low ball first offer.

whalesurfer

I have a hard time believing that. For example the scab issue - and that's what they are - has been mentioned by pretty much every single person I've been in contact with. This issue didn't score high enough??

..but either way, why do you care? A sincere question.
Why do you care and why are you spending your time berating, or at the very least lecturing those of us who're having reservations about the TA? ..because that's what you're doing.

It will pass, the propaganda machine on both the ipa and the ups side will make sure of it.

What is really sad is that you, and many like you, actually believe this is a GREAT or an industry leading TA. I fear for our union's future.. :-(


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CactusCrew

There's a fairly simple explanation for the TA, and the survey results. If you were at a roadshow, you would have heard BT say that ..." UPS likes money $$$ more than life itself "

or something along those lines.

I think its fair to say, that the IPA pilots feel the same as UPS does about money. Apparently QOL was not a priority, and this TA is more money than we make now.

Is it worth it ? That's an individual choice

FTFF

Whale, I don't recall anyone saying it was a great or industry leading contract. Certain aspects certainly are and have been pointed out. As for the conspiracy theories, save the commentary. You sound like the fat guy on the couch watching the game telling the world he knows how to run the team better than the coach.

Pilot7576

Whalesurfer,

If you don't believe what the EB/NC is stating about the surveys, I just have no answer for you. If you don't believe them, who do you believe?

As far as the NURPS, we cannot tell ups how to manage their airline, but the tit for tat reserve day reduction for MEF is a great start to show ups that the NURP system costs more than it benefits.

JMO