"Is that the beef?" Wow... yeah, without the doubt the most contentious issue here.

CC answered most of your questions.
Few more:
- Separate applications since the mid-90s.
- Same training for the Indoc, then they go their separate ways..
- You never heard of something like this because no other airline does it. To give you an idea, a friend's probationary checkride was given to him by his classmate - who was hired as a manager. The manager needed to be extended twice because he couldn't get his 100 hour consolidation in time.

By the way, some were hired during our furlough! Literally, people were turning in their badges while replacements were being shown around their new offices. On the same day and within feet of each other.
..and yet somehow those specific, furlough years nurps aren't on the master scab list? Sure, we weren't on strike, we were being furloughed.. Go figure..

 

It's very easy....If you take a job when the union worker being let go to move the same freight as he did I only have one name for you and you're always be just that.
Peace out.

 

So that's what happened when ups was furloughing and that's not right. I get that part. What about now a days though? Outside of this forum, how would guys applying for the position know the history of the position and why it would rub people the wrong way if they took it? Does ups only hire instructors/check airmen as management pilots or can line guys be instructors too?

 

If offered a "manager" position, do NOT take it!!!

By definition they are not a manager:
"A person who has control or direction of a institution or business; a person who controls or manipulates resources and expenditures"

Non Union Replacement Pilots (NURP) at UPS are not managers, they are told what to do, have no ability to control or manipulate the company and have no union protection. Just as with the Teamster strike in 1997, they ALL flew strike goods across union picket lines=SCAB.
They sit in an office & fly as a reserve pilot. ( UPS staffing is typically short )

A "manager" position @ UPS is NOT a respected position here.
**NEVER accept a non union pilot position @ UPS!!

 

MSheikh - Contractually our managers can only fly during the peak (think ~Christmas). Outside of the heavy volume flying right before and after Christmas they can only fly while doing line checks, for currency AND this is the key ->>> if we ever go on strike.. if you understand that you understand why the position was created.

Currency flying means they have to displace IPA pilots meaning an IPA pilot stays home with full pay while a manager flies and gets paid. They're on salary and get paid whether they fly or do office work.
Displacing an IPA pilot is a very expensive arrangement for the company. Basically they pay two pilots for the same trip. They have no protection, they can never join our union, they're all individual contractors. Their real competition are other managers. To have any chance of advancement they must prove themselves to the company which creates a cesspool of ruthlessly fierce competition.

"...Does ups only hire instructors/check airmen as management pilots or can line guys be instructors too?
Yes, line pilots can be instructors too and we're still fighting for check airmen positions. One day ALL those jobs will be ours, it'll happen.
In our vernacular "line pilots" means IPA pilots as they - nurps, instantaneous captains, uber-pilots or whatever term you choose don't have lines per se. They fly wherever and whenever they get sent.

You say "..So that's what happened when ups was furloughing." as if that's the only flaw with the setup?? No, the whole idea is morally wrong.
Then you ask "..What about nowadays though? Outside of this forum, how would guys applying for the position know the history of the position and why it would rub people the wrong way if they took it?"

I don't know, reasearch and a very tiny spec of common sense maybe? Just think, why on earth would a major airline with several thousand highly qualified pilots who've been flying their jets full of cargo all over the world, for years and years and years, put newhires in the left seat??? Do you believe we don't have enough qualified individuals to be captains?

Not too long ago it took 17+ years to upgrade and yet people were patiently waiting for their turn. Pretty much every Christmas we get an "advancement opportunity" invite when we get a letter asking us to apply for a promotion and become instantaneous captains (join management). A minuscule number of line pilot first officers took the opportunity. Not a single captain has ever crossed from being a line pilot to becoming a manager. Ever. What does that tell you?

Do not, I repeat, do not think that furlough years is what broke the camel's back. No, it was the most disgusting display of it and those who took nurp jobs during that time showed their true colors but the setup has been wrong all along. It's contentious and will be fought, now and always. They are all nice guys and typically we all get along however, no one can say "I didn't know..." because there's plenty of info out there. A person must be living under a rock to think this airline's non-union replacement pilot position is just a regular pilot job.

 

Last year in Cologne the german ground handlers represented by their union "Verdi'" were on a 24 hour strike. The IPA honored that strike.

Several NURP crews CROSSED IPA picket lines and moved struck goods. The NURP's are strikebreakers.

During a strike in CANADA the same thing happen when our lead goose NURP scabbed.

Don't do it.

 

To play "devil's advocate", why do I care? I walk into a job with good pay and I don't have to put up with seniority issues and bidding and all of the rest of line flying BS. I go to my office/sim job and don't travel much outside of the holiday peak. Who cares if line pilots like me or not? I'm already a captain and I work directly for the company and don't put up with union BS or politics. There isn't a stigma outside of the IPA pilots. Again, why do I care? I get treated like any other captain by the entire pilot population of the world, with the exception of about 2700. OK, I've got some folks at work who don't like me. I want to keep work and social life separate anyway. Unions are withering in the US and I've never seen anyone look at a master scab list. These are the questions that have to be addressed to the future UPS Management pilots.

If I'm 45-50 and want to live in domicile and want to make a bag of cash before I hang it up for good, you'll have a major uphill battle convincing these guys not to do it. I don't think that there is enough negative to push them away from the job. I think that the best chance the IPA has at removing these managers is to convince that they can't strike anyway. So why have these guys in reserve? RLA is too restrictive and no President will allow it. Until ALPA decides that they care by attaching a stigma or the IPA is successful in getting a big chunk of jobs in the next contract, you are just trying to get pilots to "do the right thing". Good luck with that.

MBB

 

Well,

They're not going to make a boat load of cash relative to line pilots. If fact, they'll only match year 2 FO pay, but not in retirement nor in benefits nor in any of the other little goodies we have (e.g. LAP).

In exchange for not having to deal with any of that 'line flying bidding BS,' they'll forfeit any control of their own schedule, essentially being on call 24/7. Don't forget to notice my wave from the beach as you fly overhead while I'm on 1 of my many vacation days which you won't get.

Don't travel much except during peak??? They haven't researched the job much.

They are not captains. They are management pilots.

Union politics or BS...? We don't currently have much of that. Didn't feel a bit of sorrow for the pension freeze the non union pilots just got.

In every aspect the line pilot job is way better, why settle for less? The only way we will limit the FQS is via a cost savings route. The managerial structure is a cultural thing that probably will never go away entirely.

 

Hey guys, does anyone know if an internal rec helps get interview? Ive been told yes and no by two UPS pilots haha. Thanks!

 

No, it does not. I see from your posting history that you have FOUR training failures, including a 121 training course bust and no degree. Please apply somewhere else.