IPA vs FQS positions
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,339
.. Here is my feedback: If you are interested in coming to UPS, come here as a line pilot. You WILL have an opportunity to go to management within a couple years of being hired. Spend a year on the line and make an informed decision. I would absolutely NOT recommend anyone take a management position off the street.
To the OP:
You're asking a valid question.
Currently it takes ~16 years for a line pilot to upgrade to a captain position at ups.
..or one could say "screw you all, it's all about me" and either cross over from line position to management (one-way street, can't ever go back) or accept a management position as a new hire.
Hope this is "informative" enough.
Don't be that guy.
#22
Row 1A
Joined APC: Dec 2014
Posts: 55
If offered a "manager" position, do NOT take it!!!
By definition they are not a manager:
"A person who has control or direction of a institution or business; a person who controls or manipulates resources and expenditures"
Non Union Replacement Pilots (NURP) at UPS are not managers, they are told what to do, have no ability to control or manipulate the company and have no union protection. Just as with the Teamster strike in 1997, they ALL flew strike goods across union picket lines=SCAB.
A "manager" position @ UPS is not a respected position here.
**NEVER accept a non union pilot position @ UPS!!
By definition they are not a manager:
"A person who has control or direction of a institution or business; a person who controls or manipulates resources and expenditures"
Non Union Replacement Pilots (NURP) at UPS are not managers, they are told what to do, have no ability to control or manipulate the company and have no union protection. Just as with the Teamster strike in 1997, they ALL flew strike goods across union picket lines=SCAB.
A "manager" position @ UPS is not a respected position here.
**NEVER accept a non union pilot position @ UPS!!
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2014
Position: Retired from APC.
Posts: 507
To clarify his post, the current junior captain is 16 years seniority. Newhires in 2014&2015 were forecasted to upgrade in about 10 assuming the statues quo remained (avg retirement at 63 and 400-something bypass bidders). The new contract and aircraft announcement(s?) will drop that by a couple of years assuming everything else stays the same.
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,339
Newhires in 2014 & 2015 were forecasted to upgrade in about 10 assuming the statues quo remained (avg retirement at 63 and 400-something bypass bidders). The new contract and aircraft announcement(s?) will drop that by a couple of years assuming everything else stays the same.
However, I should've said that currently it takes ~15 years for a line pilot to upgrade to a captain position at ups. Seems like APC Profiles have been updated. Remember, 15 years is the the first available upgrade class.
I agree that projections imply a quicker upgrade sometimes in the future BUT don't forget that everyone seems to be projecting an age 67 rule very shortly. Maybe even before the new president takes office? Additionally, the economy is doing ok but that's about it. So yes, these are conservative projections. If I were a potential new-hire I'd hope for the best but plan for the worst, wouldn't you?
From APC Profiles:
"Monthly guarantee: 81 hours*
Reserve guarantee: 81 hours*
(*75 hours per 28 days, converted to calendar month)
Vacation changes: 2 weeks of vacation in a single pay period (4 week period) = entire period OFF, pay protected or Vacation days paid out at 5 credit hours per day or Traditional vacation conflict rules or Vacation week slide to cover trip that falls outside of vacation
Int'l override pay/hr:
Capt/IRO/FO:
$6.50/$4.50/$4.50
Discounted Employee Stock Purchase Program (DESPP) offers 5% discount
Most Junior Capt hired: June 14, 2001 B757/767 ONT"
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2014
Position: Retired from APC.
Posts: 507
Maybe. I'm just giving current upgrade times.
However, I should've said that currently it takes ~15 years for a line pilot to upgrade to a captain position at ups. Seems like APC Profiles have been updated. Remember, 15 years is the the first available upgrade class.
I agree that projections imply a quicker upgrade sometimes in the future BUT don't forget that everyone seems to be projecting an age 67 rule very shortly. Maybe even before the new president takes office? Additionally, the economy is doing ok but that's about it. So yes, these are conservative projections. If I were a potential new-hire I'd hope for the best but plan for the worst, wouldn't you?
From APC Profiles:
"Monthly guarantee: 81 hours*
Reserve guarantee: 81 hours*
(*75 hours per 28 days, converted to calendar month)
Vacation changes: 2 weeks of vacation in a single pay period (4 week period) = entire period OFF, pay protected or Vacation days paid out at 5 credit hours per day or Traditional vacation conflict rules or Vacation week slide to cover trip that falls outside of vacation
Int'l override pay/hr:
Capt/IRO/FO:
$6.50/$4.50/$4.50
Discounted Employee Stock Purchase Program (DESPP) offers 5% discount
Most Junior Capt hired: June 14, 2001 B757/767 ONT"
However, I should've said that currently it takes ~15 years for a line pilot to upgrade to a captain position at ups. Seems like APC Profiles have been updated. Remember, 15 years is the the first available upgrade class.
I agree that projections imply a quicker upgrade sometimes in the future BUT don't forget that everyone seems to be projecting an age 67 rule very shortly. Maybe even before the new president takes office? Additionally, the economy is doing ok but that's about it. So yes, these are conservative projections. If I were a potential new-hire I'd hope for the best but plan for the worst, wouldn't you?
From APC Profiles:
"Monthly guarantee: 81 hours*
Reserve guarantee: 81 hours*
(*75 hours per 28 days, converted to calendar month)
Vacation changes: 2 weeks of vacation in a single pay period (4 week period) = entire period OFF, pay protected or Vacation days paid out at 5 credit hours per day or Traditional vacation conflict rules or Vacation week slide to cover trip that falls outside of vacation
Int'l override pay/hr:
Capt/IRO/FO:
$6.50/$4.50/$4.50
Discounted Employee Stock Purchase Program (DESPP) offers 5% discount
Most Junior Capt hired: June 14, 2001 B757/767 ONT"
Regardless, 67 seems to be all rumor. According to this fast read there are no hard plans to raise the age.
http://www3.alpa.org/portals/alpa/fastread/2015/FastRead_20150225.htm
Here is the section: (circa 2015-not much else recent)
"JAPAN INCREASES MAXIMUM PILOT AGE FOR DOMESTIC OPS
Japan's transportation ministry has announced plans to increase the mandatory retirement age for airline pilots to 67 years from the current 64 years, which will be applicable only for domestic operations in Japan. Other countries have also increased their maximum pilot age rules, or have entertained proposals to do so.
It is important for ALPA members to know, however, that no plans are being made or even discussed to amend the maximum retirement age for pilots by the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO), Federal Aviation Administration, or Transport Canada.
As was explained in the November 4, 2014, FastRead, ICAO establishes rules for the maximum age of pilots used in international operations. That maximum is 65 for captains and first officers. Individual states (i.e., countries) that conform to ICAO rules—including the United States, Canada, and Japan—may only exceed that age for domestic operations.
Late last year, ICAO established an upper age limit of 65 years as the maximum age for any pilot in international operations; previously, ICAO had no maximum age standard for first officers but did limit the age of the pilot-in-command to 65. Under the Fair Treatment of Experienced Pilots Act, the upper age limit for all pilots in the United States involved in FAR 121 operations was set at 65. Transport Canada adopted the new ICAO standard for international operations, which became effective November 13, 2014."
And something more recent further denouncing 67: https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2016/may/flight-training-magazine/career-adviser
Last edited by FTFF; 12-06-2016 at 04:47 AM. Reason: Omitted info
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,339
Yes. I disagreed with you on this then and respectfully I still do.
As of today the most junior captain was hired in June '01 (B757/767 ONT). That's 15 years!
(..or a measly 1 day if you skip the line and become a NURP. )
The day that number shrinks we'll update it here. However, until then potnential new-hires should look at current upgrade times because facts are better than hopes and wishes.
Note, I agree with you that this is a good gig however I'm a realist and prefer actual numbers.
As of today the most junior captain was hired in June '01 (B757/767 ONT). That's 15 years!
(..or a measly 1 day if you skip the line and become a NURP. )
The day that number shrinks we'll update it here. However, until then potnential new-hires should look at current upgrade times because facts are better than hopes and wishes.
Note, I agree with you that this is a good gig however I'm a realist and prefer actual numbers.
#29
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2014
Position: Retired from APC.
Posts: 507
Facts:
Junior Captain today would be a 1178 seniority number with NO bypass bidders.
2562 total pilots - 1178 captains = 1,384 seniority numbers to captain.
1384 cumulative mandatory retirements from today occurs in 2028 (per ST's senority xcel).
2016-2028 = 12 years. This is the absolute max. It cannot go any higher without shrinking the airline. That is fact.
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