Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
03-03-2015, 11:16 AM
Otto
Joined APC: Jul 2013
Position: Turkish Pile Driver
Posts: 1,806
Originally Posted by casual observer
Mike,
What do you mean by '365 day caveat' on the AE?
What do you mean by '365 day caveat' on the AE?
03-03-2015, 11:20 AM
Otto
Joined APC: Jul 2013
Position: Turkish Pile Driver
Posts: 1,806
Originally Posted by casual observer
Mike,
I looked at your question, and think you're right. Nobody is answering because they don't know. At first I thought they would convert you first, but now that you mention it, maybe it is possible someone senior to you could bypass you even if they were on a subsequent award.
I'd float that by the manager of crew resources.
I looked at your question, and think you're right. Nobody is answering because they don't know. At first I thought they would convert you first, but now that you mention it, maybe it is possible someone senior to you could bypass you even if they were on a subsequent award.
I'd float that by the manager of crew resources.
What about somebody junior to me? Also, how would I go about contacting the manager of crew resources? Sounds like somebody important who wouldn't want to talk to me
.
03-03-2015, 11:21 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2012
Posts: 770
Crew resources numbers: Bill Gable 404-715-1125 or Bob Thomas 404-715-1088.
I get what you are saying now. Sorry couldn't be of more help.
I get what you are saying now. Sorry couldn't be of more help.
03-03-2015, 11:24 AM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Originally Posted by casual observer
My car broke down, so my wife drops me off and picks me up at the terminal (ATL). (we live close). KCM on the north side of security. It doesn't save me any time, but it's nicer than riding the bus to and from employee parking.
Plus, no more embarrassing 'Honey, I'm home early... hey, who's the guy in the shower with the tattoos?'
Plus, no more embarrassing 'Honey, I'm home early... hey, who's the guy in the shower with the tattoos?'
03-03-2015, 11:25 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2012
Posts: 770
I would guess if the other pilot is junior, you would be okay. That's how I would do it if I was king.
They'll talk to you. I've always had good luck.
They'll talk to you. I've always had good luck.
03-03-2015, 11:34 AM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Originally Posted by Karnak
I think you're on to it. At an LEC meeting a couple of months ago, my reps (along with the chief pilot in attendance) told us that the measurement used was the percentage of total credit hours that were paid out as sick leave.
There are at least 5 different ways to track sick leave. Number of times pilots call schedules; number of total days (working or not); block hours paid as sick; Reserve utilization; percentage of total credit paid as sick.
Regardless of how they choose to measure it, they have chosen to make a big deal about it. I think that's poor prioritization on Delta's part.
There are at least 5 different ways to track sick leave. Number of times pilots call schedules; number of total days (working or not); block hours paid as sick; Reserve utilization; percentage of total credit paid as sick.
Regardless of how they choose to measure it, they have chosen to make a big deal about it. I think that's poor prioritization on Delta's part.
A) Some pilots with willing doctor friends can always beat the system.
B) Reduce sick leave and some pilots will fly sick/injured.
C) Monetize sick leave and some pilots will fly sick and potentially remove multiple pilots from the line flying, increases costs.
D) Leave it as is and some pilots will call in sick when they're not sick because they're going to lose that money anyways.
So make that 4 things about sick leave.
Maybes we should just have a company doc meet us at the sign in computers. If we're sick, we go home. If not, we fly. So if you're thinking about calling in sick, then you need to just come in and get verified. In uniform. Then we'll put pilots on SC airport standby to cover the missed flights.
I don't know what got into me. Very sorry people.
03-03-2015, 11:36 AM
Works Every Weekend
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: 737 ATL
Posts: 3,506
Mike-
I think I remember your question although I didn't go back and search.
Restate it if this isn't responsive:
The answer is that someone who receives an award on the once a year 365 day bid must be trained and converted (with a few listed exceptions) in seniority order with everyone else who receives an award on that same bid to the same category.
If there is a subsequent bid posted and there are awards to the same category then it absolutely is possible that someone junior to you could be trained and converted ahead of you. The contractual requirement to schedule people for training in seniority order only applies to pilots who hold awards from the same bid posting to the same category.
That is the whole purpose of the 365 day bid. It allows the company added flexibility in scheduling training and conversions for everyone who receives an award on that bid. That's also why the contract restricts 365 day bids to one per year. It inconveniences those pilots who receive an award because they are not able to plan their vacation, etc with any certainty for an entire year.
Let us know if this answers your question or post any additional questions you might have. Someone will usually answer eventually.
Just to add on-- new hires haven't seen this kind of "out of seniority" training happen too much during the recent growth phase but it has happened A LOT in the past. The company will generally do it based on what category the award holder is coming from and which one is the most "short" of pilots. When they do it, the pilot who gets bypassed is pay protected and it can sometimes be a pretty good deal (depending on how badly you wanted your vacation or had any other plans that might get disrupted).
Worst case scenario I suppose would be someone who moves their family to a new city and then finds their award delayed by several months. Ouch.
I think I remember your question although I didn't go back and search.
Restate it if this isn't responsive:
The answer is that someone who receives an award on the once a year 365 day bid must be trained and converted (with a few listed exceptions) in seniority order with everyone else who receives an award on that same bid to the same category.
If there is a subsequent bid posted and there are awards to the same category then it absolutely is possible that someone junior to you could be trained and converted ahead of you. The contractual requirement to schedule people for training in seniority order only applies to pilots who hold awards from the same bid posting to the same category.
That is the whole purpose of the 365 day bid. It allows the company added flexibility in scheduling training and conversions for everyone who receives an award on that bid. That's also why the contract restricts 365 day bids to one per year. It inconveniences those pilots who receive an award because they are not able to plan their vacation, etc with any certainty for an entire year.
Let us know if this answers your question or post any additional questions you might have. Someone will usually answer eventually.
Just to add on-- new hires haven't seen this kind of "out of seniority" training happen too much during the recent growth phase but it has happened A LOT in the past. The company will generally do it based on what category the award holder is coming from and which one is the most "short" of pilots. When they do it, the pilot who gets bypassed is pay protected and it can sometimes be a pretty good deal (depending on how badly you wanted your vacation or had any other plans that might get disrupted).
Worst case scenario I suppose would be someone who moves their family to a new city and then finds their award delayed by several months. Ouch.
Last edited by Check Essential; 03-03-2015 at 12:20 PM.
03-03-2015, 12:14 PM
Otto
Joined APC: Jul 2013
Position: Turkish Pile Driver
Posts: 1,806
Originally Posted by casual observer
Crew resources numbers: Bill G. or Bob T.
I get what you are saying now. Sorry couldn't be of more help.
I get what you are saying now. Sorry couldn't be of more help.
Originally Posted by Check Essential
Mike-
I think I remember your question although I didn't go back and search.
Restate it if this isn't responsive:
The answer is that someone who receives an award on the once a year 365 day bid must be trained and converted (with a few listed exceptions) in seniority order with everyone else who receives an award on that same bid to the same category.
If there is a subsequent bid posted and there are awards to the same category then it absolutely is possible that someone junior to you could be trained and converted ahead of you.
That is the whole purpose of the 365 day bid. It allows the company flexibility in scheduling training and conversions. That's also why the contract restricts 365 day bids to one per year. It inconveniences those pilots who receive an award because they are not able to plan their vacation, etc with any certainty for an entire year.
Let us know if this answers your question or post any additional questions you might have. Someone will usually answer eventually.
I think I remember your question although I didn't go back and search.
Restate it if this isn't responsive:
The answer is that someone who receives an award on the once a year 365 day bid must be trained and converted (with a few listed exceptions) in seniority order with everyone else who receives an award on that same bid to the same category.
If there is a subsequent bid posted and there are awards to the same category then it absolutely is possible that someone junior to you could be trained and converted ahead of you.
That is the whole purpose of the 365 day bid. It allows the company flexibility in scheduling training and conversions. That's also why the contract restricts 365 day bids to one per year. It inconveniences those pilots who receive an award because they are not able to plan their vacation, etc with any certainty for an entire year.
Let us know if this answers your question or post any additional questions you might have. Someone will usually answer eventually.
Situation: I live in SAT, seat locked to 717B, currently domiciled NYC. I don't like commuting and will move into domicile (SEA and ATL only 2 wife approved domiciles) but due to age of my kids (school moves) I feel like I must move this summer or not at all.
Moving: I missed SEA 73n in January by 400 numbers and resigned myself to the reality that I would move to ATL. Got some sticker shock at housing prices in ATL, almost as expensive to buy there as SEA. Now DAL gives me an unexpected 2nd chance to be awarded SEA with 45 openings to SEA 73NB. Since the category is still considered new I don't have to worry about my seat lock. The 365 option could complicate things a bit.
Option 1: I am awarded SEA 73n. Worst case the company doesn't train me until Jan '16 which means about 6 months commuting SEA to NYC. That seems like a fairly challenging commute but it is certainly doable.
Option 1b: I could do a backup bid of LAX 717B and hope that I'd get an SEA award on a subsequent AE. Risky since it is entirely possible that more and more senior people continue to bid into SEA extending the time I'd be stuck commuting, not willing to take this risk. I either get SEA this AE or that dream is gone until the kids are off to college.
I asked Bill if I could swap bases from NYC to LAX while waiting for a hypothetical January '16 73N training date; however, since your seat lock begins upon award and not training completion I was told this was not possible.
Option 2: Bid ATL 717B. I was worried that if I bid on this particular AE then I could possibly be bypassed by somebody junior who is awarded ATL 717B on a subsequent AE. When I spoke with Bill he said that if I required training it would be possible for somebody junior to me to bid ATL 717B on a subsequent AE and train before me; but, since I would not require training then it would be highly unlikely if not impossible for this to happen.
03-03-2015, 12:15 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2009
Position: C560XL/XLS/XLS+
Posts: 1,278
Originally Posted by casual observer
My car broke down, so my wife drops me off and picks me up at the terminal (ATL). (we live close). KCM on the north side of security. It doesn't save me any time, but it's nicer than riding the bus to and from employee parking.
Plus, no more embarrassing 'Honey, I'm home early... hey, who's the guy in the shower with the tattoos?'
Plus, no more embarrassing 'Honey, I'm home early... hey, who's the guy in the shower with the tattoos?'
03-03-2015, 12:37 PM
Straight QOL, homie
Joined APC: Feb 2012
Position: Record-Shattering Profit Facilitator
Posts: 4,202
Originally Posted by MikeF16
This was a huge help. I called Bill and will summarize in my response to CE.
Thanks that is great information. I know this will be quite a block of text but it might help others so I'll post it anyway.
Situation: I live in SAT, seat locked to 717B, currently domiciled NYC. I don't like commuting and will move into domicile (SEA and ATL only 2 wife approved domiciles) but due to age of my kids (school moves) I feel like I must move this summer or not at all.
Moving: I missed SEA 73n in January by 400 numbers and resigned myself to the reality that I would move to ATL. Got some sticker shock at housing prices in ATL, almost as expensive to buy there as SEA. Now DAL gives me an unexpected 2nd chance to be awarded SEA with 45 openings to SEA 73NB. Since the category is still considered new I don't have to worry about my seat lock. The 365 option could complicate things a bit.
Option 1: I am awarded SEA 73n. Worst case the company doesn't train me until Jan '16 which means about 6 months commuting SEA to NYC. That seems like a fairly challenging commute but it is certainly doable.
Option 1b: I could do a backup bid of LAX 717B and hope that I'd get an SEA award on a subsequent AE. Risky since it is entirely possible that more and more senior people continue to bid into SEA extending the time I'd be stuck commuting, not willing to take this risk. I either get SEA this AE or that dream is gone until the kids are off to college.
I asked Bill if I could swap bases from NYC to LAX while waiting for a hypothetical January '16 73N training date; however, since your seat lock begins upon award and not training completion I was told this was not possible.
Option 2: Bid ATL 717B. I was worried that if I bid on this particular AE then I could possibly be bypassed by somebody junior who is awarded ATL 717B on a subsequent AE. When I spoke with Bill he said that if I required training it would be possible for somebody junior to me to bid ATL 717B on a subsequent AE and train before me; but, since I would not require training then it would be highly unlikely if not impossible for this to happen.
Thanks that is great information. I know this will be quite a block of text but it might help others so I'll post it anyway.
Situation: I live in SAT, seat locked to 717B, currently domiciled NYC. I don't like commuting and will move into domicile (SEA and ATL only 2 wife approved domiciles) but due to age of my kids (school moves) I feel like I must move this summer or not at all.
Moving: I missed SEA 73n in January by 400 numbers and resigned myself to the reality that I would move to ATL. Got some sticker shock at housing prices in ATL, almost as expensive to buy there as SEA. Now DAL gives me an unexpected 2nd chance to be awarded SEA with 45 openings to SEA 73NB. Since the category is still considered new I don't have to worry about my seat lock. The 365 option could complicate things a bit.
Option 1: I am awarded SEA 73n. Worst case the company doesn't train me until Jan '16 which means about 6 months commuting SEA to NYC. That seems like a fairly challenging commute but it is certainly doable.
Option 1b: I could do a backup bid of LAX 717B and hope that I'd get an SEA award on a subsequent AE. Risky since it is entirely possible that more and more senior people continue to bid into SEA extending the time I'd be stuck commuting, not willing to take this risk. I either get SEA this AE or that dream is gone until the kids are off to college.
I asked Bill if I could swap bases from NYC to LAX while waiting for a hypothetical January '16 73N training date; however, since your seat lock begins upon award and not training completion I was told this was not possible.
Option 2: Bid ATL 717B. I was worried that if I bid on this particular AE then I could possibly be bypassed by somebody junior who is awarded ATL 717B on a subsequent AE. When I spoke with Bill he said that if I required training it would be possible for somebody junior to me to bid ATL 717B on a subsequent AE and train before me; but, since I would not require training then it would be highly unlikely if not impossible for this to happen.
Please start a "latest and greatest with mike" thread or throttle back on your personal stream of consciousness. Thanks.
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