Pinnacle/Colgan/Mesaba TA Countdown
12-07-2010, 06:58 PM
#982
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2010
Position: Up Front
Posts: 1,628
Originally Posted by LargeMarge
Wow if life at the place you voluntarily chose to work at is so bad, just quit...no one is forcing you to work there....or you can just complain
12-07-2010, 07:34 PM
#983
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Home with my family playing with my daughter as much as possible
Posts: 591
Originally Posted by LargeMarge
Wow if life at the place you voluntarily chose to work at is so bad, just quit...no one is forcing you to work there....or you can just complain
12-08-2010, 02:02 AM
#984
Banned
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: CRJ - Hell Hole
Posts: 236
Originally Posted by LargeMarge
Wow if life at the place you voluntarily chose to work at is so bad, just quit...no one is forcing you to work there....or you can just complain
We have had pilots quit at outstations, quit on the spot during these fact finding meetings, and after bad weatherflights where there was immense pressure to do the flight. Other pilots are moving on, but for most it requires swimming through a sewer pipe as in the Shawshank Redemption.
If it were possible to make a lateral move to another regional airline to a semi-equal job and pay, Pinnacle Airlines would collapse during a mass exodus. By the way about 3 years ago we had 1/3 of our pilots quit in one year! That was around 400 pilots that had to be replaced. Most who left were first officers and pilots without wives and kids. But since seniority lists do exists, you must start all the way over which just is not practical. Obviously there is a better life at other airlines. If I had known the truth about Pinnacle before I started, I would never have taken the job.
So instead I hope that the union can put some pressure on our company to grow up while I wait for the legacy carriers to start hiring again.
12-08-2010, 11:12 AM
#986
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: Ford E150 Captain
Posts: 69
Originally Posted by Pinchanickled
Your statement has merit, but understand it's not as simple as that. There are so many factors that attribute to this common feeling. For example, the job is tolerable to a single person with no family. When you meet your spouse and begin having kids, things get a little complicated. Your options become limited and toughing it out becomes your only choice if you wish to move on to the majors one day.
We have had pilots quit at outstations, quit on the spot during these fact finding meetings, and after bad weatherflights where there was immense pressure to do the flight. Other pilots are moving on, but for most it requires swimming through a sewer pipe as in the Shawshank Redemption.
If it were possible to make a lateral move to another regional airline to a semi-equal job and pay, Pinnacle Airlines would collapse during a mass exodus. By the way about 3 years ago we had 1/3 of our pilots quit in one year! That was around 400 pilots that had to be replaced. Most who left were first officers and pilots without wives and kids. But since seniority lists do exists, you must start all the way over which just is not practical. Obviously there is a better life at other airlines. If I had known the truth about Pinnacle before I started, I would never have taken the job.
So instead I hope that the union can put some pressure on our company to grow up while I wait for the legacy carriers to start hiring again.
We have had pilots quit at outstations, quit on the spot during these fact finding meetings, and after bad weatherflights where there was immense pressure to do the flight. Other pilots are moving on, but for most it requires swimming through a sewer pipe as in the Shawshank Redemption.
If it were possible to make a lateral move to another regional airline to a semi-equal job and pay, Pinnacle Airlines would collapse during a mass exodus. By the way about 3 years ago we had 1/3 of our pilots quit in one year! That was around 400 pilots that had to be replaced. Most who left were first officers and pilots without wives and kids. But since seniority lists do exists, you must start all the way over which just is not practical. Obviously there is a better life at other airlines. If I had known the truth about Pinnacle before I started, I would never have taken the job.
So instead I hope that the union can put some pressure on our company to grow up while I wait for the legacy carriers to start hiring again.
Good response, I just think what a ****** (begins with a d and ends with an ouche). I can't believe that someone actually in this profession would still respond with a "then why don't you just quit" ...
12-08-2010, 05:26 PM
#987
:-)
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,339
Originally Posted by Pinchanickled
PAPA MIKE aka PINNACLE MANAGEMENT:
You don't get it. You really don't.
We elected people who would negotiate a fair contract. Those men went in to negotiate a FAIR contract. We don't want an industry leading contract. Just a fair one. We also want a safe contract equally.
Here's some reasons why Pinnacle Pilots HATE management:
Scheduling an 8 hour reduced rest overnight is another accident waiting to happen. When you have 8 hours in Toronto which requires clearing customs both ways to and from the hotel, at a huge airport, you only get 5 hours of sleep. Then when the next day you call in fatigue you get called in for a "fact finding meeting." You are told it's no big deal, but when you sit down and they record everything you say on a tape recorder in front of 2-3 managers, that's very scary. You feel like your job is on the line. This creates pressure to never call in fatigue.
When the phone rings continuously from scheduling on your day off to junior assign you, it's demorilizing. Sometimes a family member might answer the phone accidently and then you have to go into work on your day off. If you refuse.... then you have to come in for a fact finding meeting again. Why? Because you were ABSENT ON YOUR DAY OFF!!
Buddy passes are not honored. It says it in black and white in the CBA that the pilots will get buddy pass privileges on company Pinnacle aircraft. What has the company done to make up for that? Nothing. They don't care.
We are professionals. But yet treated as middle schoolers who must have a doctors note everytime we call in sick. How rediculous is that! Management needs to discipline the sick call abusers who have created a name for themselves. They know who they are, deal with them and them alone! If a pilot has 4 sick calls in a year, then deal with that person in a professional caring manner. If a pilot calls in sick once in two years, don't make them bring a doctors note it just infuriates them to no end.
Management wont hardly ever come to the crew rooms to talk to us. But when we do run into them, they dont have the guts to face the tough issues. They are cowards.
Committment to communication is as joke. Chatauqua pilots get daily updates from their CEO through an email system. Pinnacle pilots used to get a weekly memo from Phil T. Now it's a monthly message. Check the website to see when the last message is dated.
When you call scheduling to tell them your wife and kids are sick and can't come to work, they ask if you are sick or healthy. You try to show integrity and tell them that you are healthy, but need to care for your family. They mistrip you! It happened to me.
Phil Trenary comes out on thanksgiving and christmas to promote working on the holidays. But he only stays long enough to get his picture taken and then drives back home to be with his family. True!
Overall management is rude and detached from the pilot group.
Our pilots are the frontline managers who are getting flights out ontime day to day. They are so professional to continue this, yet management keeps dumping on them.
Who is our chief pilot?
When was the last time he held a pilot meeting?
Does he keep line currency?
From what I heard, Phil Trenary was an awesome CEO back in the late 90's. Now that he's had his hand in the company cookie jar bank account and taken millions, he's become spoiled. He's become so spoiled he is now lazy. He is an amazing magician who pretends to work hard and charms people with his smile and ability to read somebody's name tag as if he remembered it on his own merit. But what has he done? Not much, just takes stock options, bonuses and a large salary.
Pinnacle Pilots don't want to make more than industry average. But we do want to get treated like humans. Which means, adequate sleep, and reasonable duty days and in general following the golden rule.
Papa Mike: You must not be a regular line pilot who is current. If you walked a mile in our mocassins today, you would totally understand why our morale is totally beat down.
You don't get it. You really don't.
We elected people who would negotiate a fair contract. Those men went in to negotiate a FAIR contract. We don't want an industry leading contract. Just a fair one. We also want a safe contract equally.
Here's some reasons why Pinnacle Pilots HATE management:
Scheduling an 8 hour reduced rest overnight is another accident waiting to happen. When you have 8 hours in Toronto which requires clearing customs both ways to and from the hotel, at a huge airport, you only get 5 hours of sleep. Then when the next day you call in fatigue you get called in for a "fact finding meeting." You are told it's no big deal, but when you sit down and they record everything you say on a tape recorder in front of 2-3 managers, that's very scary. You feel like your job is on the line. This creates pressure to never call in fatigue.
When the phone rings continuously from scheduling on your day off to junior assign you, it's demorilizing. Sometimes a family member might answer the phone accidently and then you have to go into work on your day off. If you refuse.... then you have to come in for a fact finding meeting again. Why? Because you were ABSENT ON YOUR DAY OFF!!
Buddy passes are not honored. It says it in black and white in the CBA that the pilots will get buddy pass privileges on company Pinnacle aircraft. What has the company done to make up for that? Nothing. They don't care.
We are professionals. But yet treated as middle schoolers who must have a doctors note everytime we call in sick. How rediculous is that! Management needs to discipline the sick call abusers who have created a name for themselves. They know who they are, deal with them and them alone! If a pilot has 4 sick calls in a year, then deal with that person in a professional caring manner. If a pilot calls in sick once in two years, don't make them bring a doctors note it just infuriates them to no end.
Management wont hardly ever come to the crew rooms to talk to us. But when we do run into them, they dont have the guts to face the tough issues. They are cowards.
Committment to communication is as joke. Chatauqua pilots get daily updates from their CEO through an email system. Pinnacle pilots used to get a weekly memo from Phil T. Now it's a monthly message. Check the website to see when the last message is dated.
When you call scheduling to tell them your wife and kids are sick and can't come to work, they ask if you are sick or healthy. You try to show integrity and tell them that you are healthy, but need to care for your family. They mistrip you! It happened to me.
Phil Trenary comes out on thanksgiving and christmas to promote working on the holidays. But he only stays long enough to get his picture taken and then drives back home to be with his family. True!
Overall management is rude and detached from the pilot group.
Our pilots are the frontline managers who are getting flights out ontime day to day. They are so professional to continue this, yet management keeps dumping on them.
Who is our chief pilot?
When was the last time he held a pilot meeting?
Does he keep line currency?
From what I heard, Phil Trenary was an awesome CEO back in the late 90's. Now that he's had his hand in the company cookie jar bank account and taken millions, he's become spoiled. He's become so spoiled he is now lazy. He is an amazing magician who pretends to work hard and charms people with his smile and ability to read somebody's name tag as if he remembered it on his own merit. But what has he done? Not much, just takes stock options, bonuses and a large salary.
Pinnacle Pilots don't want to make more than industry average. But we do want to get treated like humans. Which means, adequate sleep, and reasonable duty days and in general following the golden rule.
Papa Mike: You must not be a regular line pilot who is current. If you walked a mile in our mocassins today, you would totally understand why our morale is totally beat down.
Pilots have very little business experience when it comes to airlines, airlines only throw money at serious problems. If the planes are getting out on time and pilots are showing up to work, all is well. There will be no contract, especially if middle management has you guys by the balls, with gestapo like tactics.
12-08-2010, 05:37 PM
#988
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2010
Posts: 687
Originally Posted by Mesabah
True, but on the other hand, pilots need to stand up for them selves as well. I heard that all that 200% open time was gobbled up, WHY? Phil T is surrounded by a bunch of yes men, they only tell him what he wants to hear. How could he know what is going on on the line when he sees the planes are getting out on time and his middle managers are telling him morale on the line is at an all time high?
Pilots have very little business experience when it comes to airlines, airlines only throw money at serious problems. If the planes are getting out on time and pilots are showing up to work, all is well. There will be no contract, especially if middle management has you guys by the balls, with gestapo like tactics.
Pilots have very little business experience when it comes to airlines, airlines only throw money at serious problems. If the planes are getting out on time and pilots are showing up to work, all is well. There will be no contract, especially if middle management has you guys by the balls, with gestapo like tactics.
12-08-2010, 05:46 PM
#989
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2010
Posts: 687
Originally Posted by LargeMarge
Wow if life at the place you voluntarily chose to work at is so bad, just quit...no one is forcing you to work there....or you can just complain
Love the name Marge (If I were a gambling man, which obviously I am as an airline pilot in this industry, I would say you are the same person as another in this thread with a different "name"). After I quit 9E I'll send you my mortage bill and all other bills and financial responsibilities I have. You must still live with your parents and not understand providing for a family. I wish I could go back. My mom makes the BEST biscuits and gravy. Or wait, I chose to have a family, maybe I should just quit my job and not provide for them, no one forced me to have a family. People like you with this "just quit" mind set are a virus.
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