Specific reasons why:
1. Management isn't going to agree to it. They like the whipsaw and flexibility. They hold the keys to a merger.
2. The mainline group isn't going to take concessions to get you on board. Nor should they.
3. ALPA will fight you on it. Reference the showdown at the 2000 ALPA BOD meeting. (Were you even born yet?)
4. It's a windfall for the regional, with little in return for the mainline. Difficult to negotiate a deal there.
5. The senior pilots at the regional won't accept a staple. The junior pilots at the mainline won't accept an SLI.

I could go on...

 

Spent 5 years on B scale. Can you answer why Jetblue flies the 220 which is the same as a 319 for less money. Can you answer why we should. I think what you are saying is buy scope with lower pay rates. Trying to get your logic.

 

Every current multi-fleet airline in the US has different rates for different planes except for UPS I believe. JetBlue has different rates for different planes (except the 321) because it is industry standard. When JetBlue/B6ALPA negotiated rates for each of their planes, they did so using rates of every other major airline. If you guys get 190/195/220s or whatever new plane, you should negotiate whatever rate you can. If it’s the same as your 737 rate, great. And I never said you should buy scope with anything. But you should have negotiated it long ago. Scope and pay rates are two separate parts of a CBA. Negotiate each however you can to suit your pilot group.

Now, if I had a choice of my airline flying A220s at $10/hr less than 320 rates, vs a regional flying e175s/e190s/a220s for my airline instead, I would take the industry standard $10 lower A220 rates over the outsourcing every time. If you call that buying scope, well, ok. Also, Delta has different rates for their A223-($269) / A319-($274) / B737-700 ($284). But the planes are all roughly the same capacity and capability. You can argue the merits of a singular rate (I’ll probably agree with you for most of it), but my whole point by jumping in this thread isn’t to debate that point, it’s to refute your statement that a lower pay scale for different equipment is a B scale. B scales don’t exist anymore.

 

jetblue doesn’t operate 319s, only 320s and 321s. Paying different planes different rates based on seating capacity/weight isn’t a b scale, someone who worked under one of all people should understand this. I guess DL airbus pilots are on a b scale because they make less than 737 pilots...and those mad dog drivers were a C scale because they made even less than the 320 pilots 😒😒😒

 

This discussion is pointless, Alaska Airlines is in the process of returning to an all 737 fleet flown for a single pay rate, there is no second fleet type coming, there likely will be more large RJs flown at Horizon.

 

I think I get it now. There will always be regional or other companies flying for mainline at a b scale because management recognizes you guys want to be divided. It’s much easier to control you divided and pit you against each other. Even if the pilot group came together and said bring regional flying at regional rates to our pilot group recognizing the power in having the entire pilot group under one union management would never let that happen lol but instead of having that known they can just let the pilots boo it on their own haha. You guys are great.

 

1. Management isn't going to agree to it. They like the whipsaw and flexibility. They hold the keys to a merger.
The airline industry is only one crash away from this paradigm shift. Once the public realizes that management is hiring highly inexperienced pilots to fly the public to save money, there's no number of airline name changes that will save them.

2. The mainline group isn't going to take concessions to get you on board. Nor should they.
Isn't the whole point that Horizon is flying Alaska's route? Also I have no interest in going to Alaska--especially where I'm at now.

3. ALPA will fight you on it. Reference the showdown at the 2000 ALPA BOD meeting. (Were you even born yet?)
It's now 2021 and we're now starting to see the fruits of these "regional airlines". I think in retrospect B-scale wages would have been smarter, but I could be wrong.

4. It's a windfall for the regional, with little in return for the mainline. Difficult to negotiate a deal there.
There's actually a huge return for the "mainline" pilots.

5. The senior pilots at the regional won't accept a staple. The junior pilots at the mainline won't accept an SLI.
Virgin was technically a regional airline and they got an SLI? If junior pilots could flow back to the "regional" instead of being furloughed they'd accept it.

 

No it's because you can't put the toothpaste back in the tube without totally unrealistic concessions. Maybe not even then.

You could (with enough concessions) get rid of contract regional feed as contracts expire. But what about WO? If the WO has no flying, it has no value so they can't even be sold off, except maybe in pieces.

 

Management has been doing that for decades, and the public never cares. The Colgan crash was egregious enough to trigger some change but it wasn't the public behind that... it was the victim's families. Nothing more is changing unless there is another crash or two with really egregious circumstances. The silver lining with slowdowns like covid is all the noobs get to cool their heels and build some flight experience before they take the next step. Hopefully we'll be good for a while.




Then stay there, you knew the rules when you signed up. But don't expect mainline pilots to bend over backwards and make concessions to improve your lot in life.



I don't see it. The cost would be too high. The cap can be put back on the tube (maybe even get rid of OO) for a reasonable price. But putting the toothpaste back in isn't practical... either need to liquidate QX, which would cost management too much up front, or do an SLI which AS ALPA would fight tooth and nail.

VX was not a regional by any stretch, technically or otherwise. They did transcons with large narrowbodies.

 

VX was never a regional.

What's a large narrowbody? We were doing transcons with the smallest transcon capable narrowbody of all airlines, an A320. United had 757s. AA had 767s and then A321s. JetBlue was using Mint 321s. Delta was using mixtures of 767s and 757s. And correct me if I'm wrong, we were also the first airline to take an A320 across to Hawaii (not 321, I mean 320).



*Though before the pandemic the transcon seating was very generous, eg, 142 seats in a United 757ps, 102 seats in an AA 321T.