Life at Alaska !
10-30-2021, 01:10 PM
#121
missionary
Joined APC: Jun 2013
Position: Right seat 787 or missionary
Posts: 98
Originally Posted by OTZeagle1
I am sorry but if you are going to sell this narrative, make sure it’s sold honestly. I am sure many have left because of scope, pay, and scheduling but not MW. I loved flying with MW but come on. Days into his Alaska career, we are out at dinner and I said “so you moving west?” He said “No, I am just going to commute from ORD”. I said really, “so what is it UAL, AAL, or SWA.” He gave me a giant MW smile and said “United.” I am very happy for him, he drives to work now, but he never intended to stay here. It was never pay, scope, or scheduling… we simply didn’t have a Chicago base. Talk about a false narrative. Put a real honest story out there, don’t sell a lie…. I thought we were the honest ones, I thought we were better then that🤔.
Last edited by GearBoy; 10-30-2021 at 01:18 PM. Reason: Typo
10-30-2021, 01:50 PM
#122
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2017
Posts: 936
Originally Posted by conquestdz
Out of my new hire class of 6 only 3 of us are still here. They all found greener pastures, and commute was only a factor for one of them.
All of you guys should be ashamed of yourselves. You’re disappointing OTZeagle. He’s so sad you’ve had to resort to dishonesty. Clearly this is a false narrative and you are all just exaggerating.
If you keep hurting his feelings like this he may have to resort to sending PMs to the FOs here on APC, gloating about how they are going to lose their jobs.
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10-30-2021, 02:15 PM
#124
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2010
Position: Supine
Posts: 251
Originally Posted by GearBoy
I’ll ask MW but I thought he was from Tacoma, a local boy returning to the Pacific Northwest. Bottom line he did what was best for him and it wasn’t Alaska, especially post merger, especially as a one-percenter.
10-30-2021, 02:18 PM
#125
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2018
Posts: 1,173
Originally Posted by conquestdz
Out of my new hire class of 6 only 3 of us are still here. They all found greener pastures, and commute was only a factor for one of them.
10-30-2021, 02:24 PM
#126
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2018
Posts: 1,173
Originally Posted by Singlecoil
He is from Tacoma. He’s also one of the best pilots I’ve flown with in my 19,000 hour career. I was sad to see him go, but totally get it.
10-30-2021, 02:30 PM
#127
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,898
The reality is scope and work rules will be fixed in this contract cycle, which may last a couple years. Not sure how many people really base a 35+ yr career decision on one contract cycle worth of stuff. I'm sure there are some people that left because of scope and work rules today. But the main problem of AS are the structural issues which is ultimately why people really leave. The 5 structural issues are, in no particular order:
1. There are no, and won't be for the foreseeable future, widebodies.
2. There are no, and won't be for the foreseeable future, bases outside the west coast.
3. There are no, and won't be for the foreseeable future, flights to Asia or Europe.
4. Future is single fleet, all 737, and for the foreseeable future there will be no other fleet types.
5. Retirement numbers pale in comparison to the big 3. Seniority advancement is unmatched at the big 3.
These are serious structural issues for anyone less than 5 yrs here. No widebody flying, no lucrative international flying, no pilot bases outside the cities touching the Pacific ocean, stuck single fleet for potentially decades means no variety in what you work in, and slow seniority progression with a relatively younger pilot group and low retirements compared to the big 3. These 5 structural issues will cause a bulk of the attrition. There will still be some attrition even after a great contract with scope, pay, and work rules, because a great contract won't fix the 5 structural issues above.
1. There are no, and won't be for the foreseeable future, widebodies.
2. There are no, and won't be for the foreseeable future, bases outside the west coast.
3. There are no, and won't be for the foreseeable future, flights to Asia or Europe.
4. Future is single fleet, all 737, and for the foreseeable future there will be no other fleet types.
5. Retirement numbers pale in comparison to the big 3. Seniority advancement is unmatched at the big 3.
These are serious structural issues for anyone less than 5 yrs here. No widebody flying, no lucrative international flying, no pilot bases outside the cities touching the Pacific ocean, stuck single fleet for potentially decades means no variety in what you work in, and slow seniority progression with a relatively younger pilot group and low retirements compared to the big 3. These 5 structural issues will cause a bulk of the attrition. There will still be some attrition even after a great contract with scope, pay, and work rules, because a great contract won't fix the 5 structural issues above.
Last edited by ShyGuy; 10-30-2021 at 02:40 PM.
10-30-2021, 02:57 PM
#128
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2018
Posts: 1,173
Originally Posted by fucius
False narrative… ummm, no. I know him personally, as well as several others who took the “leap of faith”. It was a tough choice because most of us love the idea of “doing the RIGHT thing” that the company is selling, although we find again and again that it’s currently not reality. Alaska is a well run company, with great people, but management has been contractually abusing this pilot group for almost a decade. As long as management’s “business” mentality remains the same, our contract will remain unattractive, and uncompetitive with other major airlines’, and most LCC contracts.
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Last edited by OTZeagle1; 10-30-2021 at 03:18 PM.
10-30-2021, 03:12 PM
#129
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Position: Precarious
Posts: 378
Originally Posted by OTZeagle1
I know many are leaving because of scope, pay, scheduling inflexibility… tell their story, don’t fabricate one. MW was waiting on United, he never intended on staying much more then an overnight here. We were an insurance policy for him, that’s all.
10-30-2021, 03:22 PM
#130
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2008
Posts: 59
Life at Alaska !
Originally Posted by OTZeagle1
I don’t believe you are being honest. You left because you would make more money, fly to cooler destinations on big airplanes. It was not a tough decision, you weren’t worried about doing the right thing. You thought of one thing, your wallet. We are all the same, if UAL came to me and said I would be a wide body DEC…. I would leave tomorrow, today in fact. That will never happen, I will make more money over the next 20+ years at AS driving to work, retiring with a fat pension. I am not staying because I am Nobel or trying to do the right thing. I am staying because it is the best deal for me personally. People leave for selfish reasons, I applaud that. This is how capitalism works, I think the back end of our seniority will leave in buckets. I don’t blame them, I celibate them. New Guy would leave too, but for some reason no body wants to hire him
…..Most have found you get a lot more in life with honey then vinegar NG…
…..Most have found you get a lot more in life with honey then vinegar NG…I haven’t left. I choose to be here, I live in base, and drive to work. It works for me, but could’ve gone either way. Ultimately, the culture of the pilot group is a perfect fit for me. However, that does not make me ignorant to the inadequacies of our contract due to whatever “market forces” occurred over the last 20 years. It’s not all about the size of the plane, the destinations, or an industry “leading” hourly rate. It is about mutual respect, meaning… industry “standard” scope and work rules.
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