Agree to disagree, pension debt was a key to going BK. Legacies had contract items that were never going to be forgone except thru BK court.

1. Huge $$$$ raises in the 2000's time frame at UAL and DAL at least (remember the Delta dot).
2. Full pensions / medical for retirement (now gone) oh and back then 60 was the age.
3. Installing PBS
4. Frozen PILOT pensions handed to PBGC thru BK court to deal with.
5. 401K only retirement for new pilots

All these were items that the legacies thought they needed to be competitive in the new non-regulated environment going forward competing with younger upstarts like SWA. Only achievable through BK court.

Heck I remember in 1999/2000 Delta petitioned the Feds/IRS to allow it to deposit MORE MONEY into their pensions than the law allowed (prepay because the market had climbed so much they were technically "overfunded") but the Feds said "no, no no, those are profits and must me taxed and realized", a few short years later the tables were turned.

Turns out you can't get to BK court until you run the ship up on the banks, so yes there were many losses and debts that had to be realized before BK court was going to be an option, but once mgmt realized that only way to reset pilot labor was the way to compete going forward, BK court was the destination.

Lastly, back then legacies were continually competing against a host of old/new sizable LCC's (no pensions or retiree healthcare and paying a fraction of the wages the legacies were) that were destroying yields throughout the US like Continental, US Air, America West, AirTran etc.

Best thing that has happened to this industry is actually consolidation, followed by a tightening of the labor market so that even new entrants are now forced to pay near market wages.

I'm afraid though that if demand quickly halves, we'll return again to an industry where you can fly cross country or to Hawaii for "peanuts" and everyone will lose money, some just more than others. That environment will not be "good" for any company, it may suck less for some, but all will experience downward pressure on wages/employment and career prospects.

Yes though, congrats to Alaska Air for avoiding BK court.

 

Yes, so are JetBlue and Breeze…. SWA is awesome, how long have they been around though? AS is the only legacy. SWA is remarkable, check back in 40 years though, and 40 years is an eternity in aviation!

 

So this war and fuel stuff slowing the WN buy

 

SEA has 9 FO RSVs for the month of APR… This place is going to burn like QX Q3 of 2017… I bet JL loses his job over this one. Epic fail!

 

WN walked before the war, they are known to be a one offer company… pretty sure that ship has sailed.

 

Damn WN probably looking at B6 since they would be alot cheaper.

 

Alaska is a legacy in the same way the P.F. Chang's is authentic Chinese food.

 

Maybe if PF Changs had opened it's doors before '78, it would be considered authentic Chinese food.

 

Laugh it up ladies, call it what you want but surviving 90 years in this industry period is incredible, add zero bankruptcies and well that really is an unbelievable feat!

 

Laugh what up? I'm just highlighting that "Legacy" ONLY means it's been in business since before deregulation in 1978. NOTHING more. Pilots attach their egos to everything and assign meaning to meaningless ish.