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Alaska Air Hiring

Old 11-04-2017, 11:51 AM
  #2581  
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Originally Posted by TurnNBurn View Post
I am considering flying for the airlines and am trying to understand the extremely negative posts regarding the recent arbitration announcement. I am not in the 121 world, so I mean it sincerely when I say I am trying to understand it.

From what I see, the pay scales are a vast improvement especially considering how terrible they were at Alaska. They don't quite match up with the big three, but seem to be very good for a narrowbody-only fleet and on par with SWA. I get that Alaska is a legacy carrier, but it is a MUCH smaller airline than the AAL, UAL, and DAL.

From what I've read on these forums, the schedules are a source of frustration. It is difficult/impossible to drop or trade trips, but that's the way it is at Alaska and any future improvements will require reasonable industry-standard demands and a strong stance from the pilot group.

Scope. This seems to be the most contentious aspect and where I need the most help. Is the concern that all of the flying will/could be taken by the regional carriers? If so, what about the fact that the regionals are struggling so much to recruit and retain pilots? They are struggling to grow (even meet demand) due to the "pilot shortage" right? The frustration seems to be focused on management at Alaska. But I can't imagine management "winning" if they aren't keeping their growing 737 fleet flying.

[bracing for responses, but really want to have a better understanding of all of this stuff]
Management wins by keeping the BOD & Wall Street happy. That way B&B get their bonuses.

They don't care who does the flying under the AAG umbrella. They want the cheapest labor.

AAG management has the utmost contempt towards its various labor groups, especially the pilots. They see us as an adversary, not an asset.

Trips and lines have gotten worse over the years. We are all flying more block hours, with not much increase in credit time.

Our reserves are flying so much that they are almost like line holders.

Fatigue reports and calls have increased quite a bit over the past two years, especially among our reserve pilots.

Knowing what I know now, I wouldn't have come here. It's too late for me in life to leave. If I was 10-15 years younger and has only 3-5 years invested here, I would try to bolt.
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Old 11-04-2017, 12:41 PM
  #2582  
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Originally Posted by TurnNBurn View Post
Scope. This seems to be the most contentious aspect and where I need the most help. Is the concern that all of the flying will/could be taken by the regional carriers? If so, what about the fact that the regionals are struggling so much to recruit and retain pilots? They are struggling to grow (even meet demand) due to the "pilot shortage" right? The frustration seems to be focused on management at Alaska. But I can't imagine management "winning" if they aren't keeping their growing 737 fleet flying.

[bracing for responses, but really want to have a better understanding of all of this stuff]
I think you get it quite well. The struggle in the future will be to not make demands for scope at the expense of other areas of the contract. It would be foolish to give up something else for scope at a time when the company couldn't possibly outsource significant flying due to the inability of regionals to hire. At a certain point it would be wise to call their bluff and say, "Go ahead. See how many regionals are beating down your door for AS flying." To do otherwise would be to let them put something in writing that they didn't have any reasonable expectation of carrying out anyway. The larger risk for AS pilots is that would outsource heavier jets. There is nothing in our contract that says they couldn't order 777's and operate them as "Alaskan Airlines" instead of Alaska. Coming to Alaska at a time of such great uncertainty when other carriers have mature union contracts would be unwise, in my opinion. I came here from a regional when the majors weren't hiring. I regret that decision, and the decision to not keep looking for better employment immensely. Not I'm a 50-year-old captain and I'm forced to think hard about leaving. A pension is worthless if the company goes bankrupt anyway. Alaska is poised to shrink if not go away. Do I quit or hope that someone buys us?
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Old 11-04-2017, 12:46 PM
  #2583  
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Originally Posted by Ispeakjive View Post
Seriously? Year 1 is $87 and if someone gets stuck here longer than 12 months while waiting to move up, they move to $122. If you're at a regional, its a no brainer.
Oh, it would be great until the shine wears off in 6 to 12 months. This is sub par airline. Horrible management, and weak pilot group. The middle of the pay scales are less than Hawaiian, but that's not even the biggest problem. We have zero scope, and it's going to bite us in the a$s. Management testified in the arbitration that scope will limit them from buying JetBlue or Hawaiian, and running them as a separate airline. Word is they also said that at the negotiating table, and that that is their ultimate goal. The air group would own JetBlue, but run Alaska separate in the Pacific Northwest, and grow JetBlue as the larger airline. If management wanted to they could order 100 more 737 or airbus and place them with another airline to fly as Alaska, and there is nothing we can do to stop it. Like I said before, avoid this place like the plague.
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Old 11-04-2017, 01:19 PM
  #2584  
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Originally Posted by ForeverJunior View Post
Management wins by keeping the BOD & Wall Street happy. That way B&B get their bonuses.

They don't care who does the flying under the AAG umbrella. They want the cheapest labor.

AAG management has the utmost contempt towards its various labor groups, especially the pilots. They see us as an adversary, not an asset.

Trips and lines have gotten worse over the years. We are all flying more block hours, with not much increase in credit time.

Our reserves are flying so much that they are almost like line holders.

Fatigue reports and calls have increased quite a bit over the past two years, especially among our reserve pilots.

Knowing what I know now, I wouldn't have come here. It's too late for me in life to leave. If I was 10-15 years younger and has only 3-5 years invested here, I would try to bolt.
Yes yes yes spot on
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Old 11-04-2017, 01:23 PM
  #2585  
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Originally Posted by Singlecoil View Post
I think you get it quite well. The struggle in the future will be to not make demands for scope at the expense of other areas of the contract. It would be foolish to give up something else for scope at a time when the company couldn't possibly outsource significant flying due to the inability of regionals to hire. At a certain point it would be wise to call their bluff and say, "Go ahead. See how many regionals are beating down your door for AS flying." To do otherwise would be to let them put something in writing that they didn't have any reasonable expectation of carrying out anyway. The larger risk for AS pilots is that would outsource heavier jets. There is nothing in our contract that says they couldn't order 777's and operate them as "Alaskan Airlines" instead of Alaska. Coming to Alaska at a time of such great uncertainty when other carriers have mature union contracts would be unwise, in my opinion. I came here from a regional when the majors weren't hiring. I regret that decision, and the decision to not keep looking for better employment immensely. Not I'm a 50-year-old captain and I'm forced to think hard about leaving. A pension is worthless if the company goes bankrupt anyway. Alaska is poised to shrink if not go away. Do I quit or hope that someone buys us?
Leave if I could I would I still may leave itís harder with less than 12 years left. The leadership is delusional it will be ours and their downfall. Itís sad how this has played out.
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Old 11-04-2017, 03:33 PM
  #2586  
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Originally Posted by Kitchen25 View Post
I donít think the mins will change yet. My guess would be the first if the year for the window to open again.


It was announced by the company that the mins will be reduced, sent out to all your pilots last month?


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Old 11-05-2017, 06:49 AM
  #2587  
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Originally Posted by ForeverJunior View Post
AAG management has the utmost contempt towards its various labor groups, especially the pilots. They see us as an adversary, not an asset.
Actually they see you as a liability to be minimized as opposed to an asset to be maximized. The opposite is what you'd find at a place like SWA.
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Old 11-06-2017, 09:54 AM
  #2588  
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Originally Posted by ThePlaneSaidSo View Post
It was announced by the company that the mins will be reduced, sent out to all your pilots last month?


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any truth to this?
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Old 11-06-2017, 09:57 AM
  #2589  
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Originally Posted by denverpilot7 View Post
any truth to this?
Not going to make much difference if they do.
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Old 11-06-2017, 12:01 PM
  #2590  
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Itís expected with the next application window opening that mins will be reduce to ďbe in line with industry normĒ whatever that means, and that the 4 year degree will be preferred, as opposed to required. Per a BCP, a lack of degree will have to be offset with experience and professional achievement, ie instructor, checkairman, etc....


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