Alaska Air Hiring
11-04-2017, 11:51 AM
#2581
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2014
Position: 737 CA
Posts: 343
I am considering flying for the airlines and am trying to understand the extremely negative posts regarding the recent arbitration announcement. I am not in the 121 world, so I mean it sincerely when I say I am trying to understand it.
From what I see, the pay scales are a vast improvement especially considering how terrible they were at Alaska. They don't quite match up with the big three, but seem to be very good for a narrowbody-only fleet and on par with SWA. I get that Alaska is a legacy carrier, but it is a MUCH smaller airline than the AAL, UAL, and DAL.
From what I've read on these forums, the schedules are a source of frustration. It is difficult/impossible to drop or trade trips, but that's the way it is at Alaska and any future improvements will require reasonable industry-standard demands and a strong stance from the pilot group.
Scope. This seems to be the most contentious aspect and where I need the most help. Is the concern that all of the flying will/could be taken by the regional carriers? If so, what about the fact that the regionals are struggling so much to recruit and retain pilots? They are struggling to grow (even meet demand) due to the "pilot shortage" right? The frustration seems to be focused on management at Alaska. But I can't imagine management "winning" if they aren't keeping their growing 737 fleet flying.
[bracing for responses, but really want to have a better understanding of all of this stuff]
From what I see, the pay scales are a vast improvement especially considering how terrible they were at Alaska. They don't quite match up with the big three, but seem to be very good for a narrowbody-only fleet and on par with SWA. I get that Alaska is a legacy carrier, but it is a MUCH smaller airline than the AAL, UAL, and DAL.
From what I've read on these forums, the schedules are a source of frustration. It is difficult/impossible to drop or trade trips, but that's the way it is at Alaska and any future improvements will require reasonable industry-standard demands and a strong stance from the pilot group.
Scope. This seems to be the most contentious aspect and where I need the most help. Is the concern that all of the flying will/could be taken by the regional carriers? If so, what about the fact that the regionals are struggling so much to recruit and retain pilots? They are struggling to grow (even meet demand) due to the "pilot shortage" right? The frustration seems to be focused on management at Alaska. But I can't imagine management "winning" if they aren't keeping their growing 737 fleet flying.
[bracing for responses, but really want to have a better understanding of all of this stuff]
They don't care who does the flying under the AAG umbrella. They want the cheapest labor.
AAG management has the utmost contempt towards its various labor groups, especially the pilots. They see us as an adversary, not an asset.
Trips and lines have gotten worse over the years. We are all flying more block hours, with not much increase in credit time.
Our reserves are flying so much that they are almost like line holders.
Fatigue reports and calls have increased quite a bit over the past two years, especially among our reserve pilots.
Knowing what I know now, I wouldn't have come here. It's too late for me in life to leave. If I was 10-15 years younger and has only 3-5 years invested here, I would try to bolt.
11-04-2017, 12:41 PM
#2582
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2010
Position: Supine
Posts: 257
Scope. This seems to be the most contentious aspect and where I need the most help. Is the concern that all of the flying will/could be taken by the regional carriers? If so, what about the fact that the regionals are struggling so much to recruit and retain pilots? They are struggling to grow (even meet demand) due to the "pilot shortage" right? The frustration seems to be focused on management at Alaska. But I can't imagine management "winning" if they aren't keeping their growing 737 fleet flying.
[bracing for responses, but really want to have a better understanding of all of this stuff]
[bracing for responses, but really want to have a better understanding of all of this stuff]
11-04-2017, 12:46 PM
#2583
Line Holder
Joined APC: Nov 2011
Posts: 93
Oh, it would be great until the shine wears off in 6 to 12 months. This is sub par airline. Horrible management, and weak pilot group. The middle of the pay scales are less than Hawaiian, but that's not even the biggest problem. We have zero scope, and it's going to bite us in the a$s. Management testified in the arbitration that scope will limit them from buying JetBlue or Hawaiian, and running them as a separate airline. Word is they also said that at the negotiating table, and that that is their ultimate goal. The air group would own JetBlue, but run Alaska separate in the Pacific Northwest, and grow JetBlue as the larger airline. If management wanted to they could order 100 more 737 or airbus and place them with another airline to fly as Alaska, and there is nothing we can do to stop it. Like I said before, avoid this place like the plague.
11-04-2017, 01:19 PM
#2584
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2015
Position: a cushy one with a forward facing window
Posts: 114
Management wins by keeping the BOD & Wall Street happy. That way B&B get their bonuses.
They don't care who does the flying under the AAG umbrella. They want the cheapest labor.
AAG management has the utmost contempt towards its various labor groups, especially the pilots. They see us as an adversary, not an asset.
Trips and lines have gotten worse over the years. We are all flying more block hours, with not much increase in credit time.
Our reserves are flying so much that they are almost like line holders.
Fatigue reports and calls have increased quite a bit over the past two years, especially among our reserve pilots.
Knowing what I know now, I wouldn't have come here. It's too late for me in life to leave. If I was 10-15 years younger and has only 3-5 years invested here, I would try to bolt.
They don't care who does the flying under the AAG umbrella. They want the cheapest labor.
AAG management has the utmost contempt towards its various labor groups, especially the pilots. They see us as an adversary, not an asset.
Trips and lines have gotten worse over the years. We are all flying more block hours, with not much increase in credit time.
Our reserves are flying so much that they are almost like line holders.
Fatigue reports and calls have increased quite a bit over the past two years, especially among our reserve pilots.
Knowing what I know now, I wouldn't have come here. It's too late for me in life to leave. If I was 10-15 years younger and has only 3-5 years invested here, I would try to bolt.
11-04-2017, 01:23 PM
#2585
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2015
Position: a cushy one with a forward facing window
Posts: 114
I think you get it quite well. The struggle in the future will be to not make demands for scope at the expense of other areas of the contract. It would be foolish to give up something else for scope at a time when the company couldn't possibly outsource significant flying due to the inability of regionals to hire. At a certain point it would be wise to call their bluff and say, "Go ahead. See how many regionals are beating down your door for AS flying." To do otherwise would be to let them put something in writing that they didn't have any reasonable expectation of carrying out anyway. The larger risk for AS pilots is that would outsource heavier jets. There is nothing in our contract that says they couldn't order 777's and operate them as "Alaskan Airlines" instead of Alaska. Coming to Alaska at a time of such great uncertainty when other carriers have mature union contracts would be unwise, in my opinion. I came here from a regional when the majors weren't hiring. I regret that decision, and the decision to not keep looking for better employment immensely. Not I'm a 50-year-old captain and I'm forced to think hard about leaving. A pension is worthless if the company goes bankrupt anyway. Alaska is poised to shrink if not go away. Do I quit or hope that someone buys us?
11-04-2017, 03:33 PM
#2586
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2017
Posts: 284
11-05-2017, 06:49 AM
#2587
Banned
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Position: 7th green
Posts: 4,378
Actually they see you as a liability to be minimized as opposed to an asset to be maximized. The opposite is what you'd find at a place like SWA.
11-06-2017, 12:01 PM
#2590
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2007
Posts: 280
It’s expected with the next application window opening that mins will be reduce to “be in line with industry norm” whatever that means, and that the 4 year degree will be preferred, as opposed to required. Per a BCP, a lack of degree will have to be offset with experience and professional achievement, ie instructor, checkairman, etc....
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