There's your key. As long as the classes are full and they can find suckers to fill them, you have zero traction.

 

I think your numbers include flows. For off the street hires it is indeed a military pilot's game at all the majors. Break down any newhire class at Delta, AA, United and Southwest in the last two years and remove flows and interns and you sure won't see half civilian. One exception is/was USAir.

I also disagree that this thread serves no point. I'd argue that this thread is exactly why this website was created. Seems everyone in the industry knows about Allegiant and its woes due to this very thread.

 

Fish makes some good points. Looking at the stock and load factors, however, it doesn't appear that management is concerned by all the negative media coverage surrounding Allegiant. The media has done pretty good covering the maintenance problems, air returns, evacuations, even tying the CEO to ValuJet. I guess it will take another ValuJet type accident for anyone to wake up. The union seems to have done a good job showcasing the companies maintenance shortcomings and practices. Didn't they also came close to having several members removed from the board of directors? To date, only the threat of a strike seems to have made a dent in that crazy stock.

Between the government, the courts, and this Teflon CEO, these guys have tough times ahead. Hopefully the NMB will wake up and see G4's antics and give those guys the release they need to get a contract. Company won't budge until they strike.

 

Allegiant has a very difficult time with training. It is quite disorganized and takes much longer than it should. This also translates into higher costs. If enough people leave and there is a sustained trend to the departures, they will be unable to keep up and any cost savings with the newer cheaper meat in the seat will be negated.

I don't see it as my job to stay and suffer as we fight the good fight. I will while I'm here but that doesn't mean I have to stay as long as it takes to sort out a decent contract..... if it ever happens.

 

Flows are a small percentage of new hires. Again, the stats have been posted monthly by Delta MEC and it shows 47% mil I believe. I'll grab June's report and post it. United recently went through a bout of a specific person intentionally weeding out mil applicants to prevent them from getting a call. Plus, you can't start breaking down the civilian portion and say that they have been primarily flows or interns. Same is true for mil guys. Most have been fighter types and squadron operations officers, squadron commanders etc. The more you worry about who got hired is less time spent making yourself more marketable.

Everyone knows what Allegiants problems are, even the completely exaggerated ones on here. Saying new hires are hurting the cause is no different than saying senior captains staying are hurting it also. "We're fighting the good fight," they will say. Bull****, they are making over $100k a year and are home every night and have gotten comfortable and don't want to move on. No different than the regional capts. Strike, leave or ****. Until then I would suggest to not expect someone to do something you won't. Sorry but I'm just getting tired of reading so many threads of pilots non stop *****ing.

 

Delta June Flying Ops

Year to date:
287 civilian hired
291 military hired

Month of May:
72 civilian hired
76 military hired

 

I'm only quoting you because the mobile app is making me include a quote.



So if the big road block to moving forward with negotiations is dues check off, and dues check off has been the downfall of the other two unions, then let's say to heck with dues check off for now. We can pay our dues as responsible adults. Let's not hold up a contract on this. I'm sure PayPal or some other means is available to the union.

Threatening a pilot with termination for not paying dues is ridiculous anyway. Per the RLA we pay dues or the agency fee. The union can and will get their money.

Let's see how serious the company really is about negotiating.

 

The downfall of the other two unions has been a lack of unity and fortitude. The only downfall thus far has been legal rulings that have not gone our way. The problem has never been whether or not the pilots are willing and able to strike. Management will cave once they see that sky high stock price plummet. With only the threat of a strike the stock dropped like a rock.

Dues check off is the holy grail of union busting. Very simple equation; take away the money and defund the union. Any contract is worthless without legal enforcement. The next battle will be compliance and interpretation. This management will attempt to slime around any contract that is signed. G4’s word means nothing. Our pwr has signatures and was signed with handshakes; sure looks like a contract. Million dollar F&H attorneys made sure g4 management would be insulated from it.

There will always be that 10 percent at every airline that will refuse to pay dues and plenty of people who will forget. Let g4 collect it. It will only be g4 managements objection till the end of the 30 day cooling off period. If, and only if we are released. G4 management will be made to sign off on dues check off; only if released and after the 30 day cooling off. G4 management has more to lose, and therefore does not have the stomach for a true fight. I for one understand the importance of keeping the coffers full with as much cash as possible to fight F&H attorneys.

Dues check off would be worth that battle every time.

 

That is the worst idea I've ever heard. Let's let MG pull down the whole industry. I can see it now, every other airline during their negotiations would then use, "allegiant doesn't need dues checkoff so we don't need it either" race to the bottom. Grow a pair and hold the line for once guys! We are in this together, or do you want our union to be as strong as the FA`s?? Dues checkoff/closed shop is non-negotiable.

 

There are many examples of undemocratic compulsory ‘contributions’ in the usa. Like I paid off my mortgage, but if I don’t pay my property taxes, I’ll be forcibly evicted from my land. I think that is ridiculous. Closed shop, dues check off. It will be a just deserved insult to our ceo, who has a maniacal hatred for unions and pilots. Hence, his ‘Us against Them’ hats.