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01-05-2016 | 11:55 AM

#1131

labbats

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From: A320

Quote:

Originally Posted by FirstClass

Takeoff into freezing rain classified greater than light is prohibited at any airline.

Agreed. That would only serve to underline why I question being dispatched to fly and land in it. Several flights a year are and few have the data to leave even if it is only light freezing rain.

Then again we scheduled many MD80 flights in Decmeber to places they are incapable of departing without a fuel stop (or at all) if contaminated.

We also classify fields that are snowing as wet runways.

I'll stop now.

01-05-2016 | 12:25 PM

#1132

tailendcharlie

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From: CA

Well that's interesting 'cause yesterday we got TLR data for wet plus all 3 contamination levels. This is on the Airbus;presumably you're referring to the -80.

Quote:

Originally Posted by labbats

We also classify fields that are snowing as wet runways.

I'll stop now.

01-05-2016 | 12:47 PM

#1133

labbats

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From: A320

Quote:

Originally Posted by tailendcharlie

Well that's interesting 'cause yesterday we got TLR data for wet plus all 3 contamination levels. This is on the Airbus;presumably you're referring to the -80.

No this is on the Airbus. Was told that policy is wet runway numbers regardless of snow in METAR or TAF. This was last month.

01-05-2016 | 02:30 PM

#1134

j3cub

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Quote:

Originally Posted by labbats

No this is on the Airbus. Was told that policy is wet runway numbers regardless of snow in METAR or TAF. This was last month.

Just because it's snowing doesn't mean a runway is contaminated. If it's snowing and it melts it's wet. Not compact snow or contaminated.

01-05-2016 | 02:35 PM

#1135

tailendcharlie

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From: CA

Yup.....there's snow with no contamination in which case use wet numbers but if ATIS & NOTAMS are stating a layer of contamination then you use the numbers for the appropriate contamination level. It's all spelled out in the Aerodata section of the manual.

01-05-2016 | 03:25 PM

#1136

labbats

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From: A320

My concern is if they are reporting MU values then it should be classified as contaminated. They don't run those when it's raining.

I agree if it just started snowing on a warmer runway it would be wet... however if it has been snowing all day don't tell me the stopping distance is equal to rain.

Sorry to derail the thread with all of this. I'm curious what everyone else thinks about it all.

Last edited by labbats; 01-05-2016 at 03:44 PM.

01-05-2016 | 04:10 PM

#1137

tailendcharlie

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From: CA

You raise an interesting point in that for takeoff Mu values are not considered only contamination levels; Mu values are taken into account when running the landing data.

01-05-2016 | 04:21 PM

#1138

labbats

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From: A320

Quote:

Originally Posted by tailendcharlie

You raise an interesting point in that for takeoff Mu values are not considered only contamination levels; Mu values are taken into account when running the landing data.

They use wet numbers for landing data when MU reports are given.

I have argued against this and was told that even though the field was being plowed and snow was constant that wet numbers applied. This came from several sources.

01-05-2016 | 04:54 PM

#1139

j3cub

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Quote:

Originally Posted by labbats

If you aren't comfortable then don't go.

With that said, it's extremely difficult at any airline to determine runway conditions. Even the aerodata performance book lists specifications for different contaminants. Yet they are measurements in inches. I have never been to an airport that reported contaminant depth. Ultimately it's up to the PIC to determine.

01-05-2016 | 05:35 PM

#1140

tailendcharlie

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From: CA

Quote:

Originally Posted by j3cub

On the 'bus sometime during the arrival phase of flight there's a place for you enter the reported braking action into the MCDU when you state the landing runway conditions - if the numbers say you can't land then you're holding or diverting no matter what anyone tries to tell you. Can't imagine any Captain I know accepting anything less conservative. Been in that situation myself & never experienced any pushback from dispatch.