Allegiant Air
07-08-2016 | 05:50 AM
#3571
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 3,145
Likes: 12
Glad you just told our ex co and negotiations team what a lousy job they did, I am positive you are ready to commit the next two years of your life to righting the wrong of this TA. lets all throw the thousands of dollars away so every scenario is written to your satisfaction. We will wait years for a new TA who knows what economy will be by then.
Who knows what protection you will have if you screw up a flight.
We have nothing if it doesn't pass. It's really simple, are there more positives in this TA than negatives YES! Don't assume there is anything left to negotiate
Because everyone involved knows that's all there is.
Who knows what protection you will have if you screw up a flight.
We have nothing if it doesn't pass. It's really simple, are there more positives in this TA than negatives YES! Don't assume there is anything left to negotiate
Because everyone involved knows that's all there is.
07-08-2016 | 06:03 AM
#3572
New Hire
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Thanks exco and NC for everything you've done. Don't take it personally when we vote this down for weak work rules. Most of us don't work at Allegiant for the $$. It's the quality of life that has kept us here. The quality of life we had before PBS, single days off, TDY...... These recently created practices were implemented to save money and with no regard for how we were affected. Now they're being agreed upon.
07-08-2016 | 06:53 AM
#3574
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 442
Likes: 0
Any lawyer would salivate at the prospect of having 50 witnesses to how JB said he would interpret a grey area in the contract if it went to court.
07-08-2016 | 06:58 AM
#3575
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 128
Likes: 0
I know...looking for more information to make an informed choice is just stupid, but not nearly as stupid as blathering on about what one doesn't have a clue about.
For your information, the LAS union roadshow (and the subsequent ones) highlighted some very good questions that were IMMEDIATELY addressed with the company and is now being worked into clarification language for a binding MOU. Greg U. and Trent Porter are working directly with one another to clean up what is found. The people who were at the LAS roadshow with the company saw it first hand. One of those items was the reference to BLOCK as opposed to PCH when referencing premium pay. The company agreed that PCH is PCH, no matter how you get it and with one exception, all PCH gained above 81 hours, even for sim and ground instructors, is paid at 130%.
Something interesting that came out, not sure if they meant to say it, but the BOD was not particularly happy to hear about how much money this is going to cost. Bricker directly stated that if it the TA goes down, it will be a good while before the process starts up again, Greg U from the union also stated the day prior that if it dies, then we will have a serious battle just trying to get a new mediator, who, it seems, hates us. This fact shouldn't deter anyone from voting "no", but it is actual information to be used.
The idea that the company "all of a sudden" came up with this TA is a misnomer. Greg and Scott discussed how difficult it was just to get the duty rig inserted and was done at the 11th hour. The company didn't just throw this thing on a table and the union said "ok", negotiations were still happening. Of course, when you hear the company say how it was aggressively working for the last year, we all hear blah, blah, blah and for good reason, but the process was being worked, regardless of motivation.
Speaking of motivation, an offhand remark from Bricker intimated that there may be more to the AB purchase than can be attributed to rumor. Anyone who has heard him talk knows he wants to continue to grow the company and he had some interesting thoughts going forward:
- Indefinite hiring of 14/mo was specifically stated, there has been a spike in apps, increasingly from regional CAs. Why they came up with "40 heads" just for the contract requirements wasn't explained, but Eric Gust's dream of every CA flying right seat will be destroyed with the TA if it passes. A former instructor asked how they expected to get there from here, they seemed to think with the steady class sizes, they can alleviate the requirements, but in the short term we are criminally short on FOs, so who really knows what they'll do
- Passing this TA will have, from the business side, the effect of predictability for investors, lenders, etc. They seem to think they can get rid of (completely) the -80 by end of 2019. BREXIT and the repercussions of that vote has had an effect of making debt cheaper which allow the company to do more, with respect to growth, quicker and cheaper. Allegedly, the turmoil associated would benefit us, remains to be seen.
- Their view seemed to encompass several different ideas...mainly, suck up an expensive contract (it's going to be expensive, just one SFB/PIE DH goes from maybe costing 100 bucks in DH to a 6ish hour PCH because of duty rig, plus 420 bucks DH, and this nonsense happens every day) to allow for fleet replacement, add 30 more cities (ok...seems undoable at our present fleet strength, but who knows) and try to edge out Spirit/Frontier, both in market share and potentially attracting their workforce (again, who knows)
Personally, I don't care what brought the company to this point, but if it matters to someone to the point that they'll overlook positives in a potential contract, then that is on them. The burn it down guys are all going on about READ THE TA, as if we haven't. Even a cursory glance shows that there is at least a small improvement in every single area in this TA, some improvements are huge. A closer reading and taking any questions to the roadshow with the intent of being objective will reveal that despite some weak areas, everyone will benefit from this contract, some more than others, but that's the way it works out. Cameron and Co did not roll over and sell out our group with this thing. We sent them to do a job and their reading of the situation and window of opportunity brought us to this place. Remains to be seen if people within our group can take the time to see it objectively...
For your information, the LAS union roadshow (and the subsequent ones) highlighted some very good questions that were IMMEDIATELY addressed with the company and is now being worked into clarification language for a binding MOU. Greg U. and Trent Porter are working directly with one another to clean up what is found. The people who were at the LAS roadshow with the company saw it first hand. One of those items was the reference to BLOCK as opposed to PCH when referencing premium pay. The company agreed that PCH is PCH, no matter how you get it and with one exception, all PCH gained above 81 hours, even for sim and ground instructors, is paid at 130%.
Something interesting that came out, not sure if they meant to say it, but the BOD was not particularly happy to hear about how much money this is going to cost. Bricker directly stated that if it the TA goes down, it will be a good while before the process starts up again, Greg U from the union also stated the day prior that if it dies, then we will have a serious battle just trying to get a new mediator, who, it seems, hates us. This fact shouldn't deter anyone from voting "no", but it is actual information to be used.
The idea that the company "all of a sudden" came up with this TA is a misnomer. Greg and Scott discussed how difficult it was just to get the duty rig inserted and was done at the 11th hour. The company didn't just throw this thing on a table and the union said "ok", negotiations were still happening. Of course, when you hear the company say how it was aggressively working for the last year, we all hear blah, blah, blah and for good reason, but the process was being worked, regardless of motivation.
Speaking of motivation, an offhand remark from Bricker intimated that there may be more to the AB purchase than can be attributed to rumor. Anyone who has heard him talk knows he wants to continue to grow the company and he had some interesting thoughts going forward:
- Indefinite hiring of 14/mo was specifically stated, there has been a spike in apps, increasingly from regional CAs. Why they came up with "40 heads" just for the contract requirements wasn't explained, but Eric Gust's dream of every CA flying right seat will be destroyed with the TA if it passes. A former instructor asked how they expected to get there from here, they seemed to think with the steady class sizes, they can alleviate the requirements, but in the short term we are criminally short on FOs, so who really knows what they'll do
- Passing this TA will have, from the business side, the effect of predictability for investors, lenders, etc. They seem to think they can get rid of (completely) the -80 by end of 2019. BREXIT and the repercussions of that vote has had an effect of making debt cheaper which allow the company to do more, with respect to growth, quicker and cheaper. Allegedly, the turmoil associated would benefit us, remains to be seen.
- Their view seemed to encompass several different ideas...mainly, suck up an expensive contract (it's going to be expensive, just one SFB/PIE DH goes from maybe costing 100 bucks in DH to a 6ish hour PCH because of duty rig, plus 420 bucks DH, and this nonsense happens every day) to allow for fleet replacement, add 30 more cities (ok...seems undoable at our present fleet strength, but who knows) and try to edge out Spirit/Frontier, both in market share and potentially attracting their workforce (again, who knows)
Personally, I don't care what brought the company to this point, but if it matters to someone to the point that they'll overlook positives in a potential contract, then that is on them. The burn it down guys are all going on about READ THE TA, as if we haven't. Even a cursory glance shows that there is at least a small improvement in every single area in this TA, some improvements are huge. A closer reading and taking any questions to the roadshow with the intent of being objective will reveal that despite some weak areas, everyone will benefit from this contract, some more than others, but that's the way it works out. Cameron and Co did not roll over and sell out our group with this thing. We sent them to do a job and their reading of the situation and window of opportunity brought us to this place. Remains to be seen if people within our group can take the time to see it objectively...
07-08-2016 | 07:11 AM
#3576
Line Holder
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 314
Likes: 8
From: AB
I know...looking for more information to make an informed choice is just stupid, but not nearly as stupid as blathering on about what one doesn't have a clue about.
For your information, the LAS union roadshow (and the subsequent ones) highlighted some very good questions that were IMMEDIATELY addressed with the company and is now being worked into clarification language for a binding MOU. Greg U. and Trent Porter are working directly with one another to clean up what is found. The people who were at the LAS roadshow with the company saw it first hand. One of those items was the reference to BLOCK as opposed to PCH when referencing premium pay. The company agreed that PCH is PCH, no matter how you get it and with one exception, all PCH gained above 81 hours, even for sim and ground instructors, is paid at 130%.
Something interesting that came out, not sure if they meant to say it, but the BOD was not particularly happy to hear about how much money this is going to cost. Bricker directly stated that if it the TA goes down, it will be a good while before the process starts up again, Greg U from the union also stated the day prior that if it dies, then we will have a serious battle just trying to get a new mediator, who, it seems, hates us. This fact shouldn't deter anyone from voting "no", but it is actual information to be used.
The idea that the company "all of a sudden" came up with this TA is a misnomer. Greg and Scott discussed how difficult it was just to get the duty rig inserted and was done at the 11th hour. The company didn't just throw this thing on a table and the union said "ok", negotiations were still happening. Of course, when you hear the company say how it was aggressively working for the last year, we all hear blah, blah, blah and for good reason, but the process was being worked, regardless of motivation.
Speaking of motivation, an offhand remark from Bricker intimated that there may be more to the AB purchase than can be attributed to rumor. Anyone who has heard him talk knows he wants to continue to grow the company and he had some interesting thoughts going forward:
- Indefinite hiring of 14/mo was specifically stated, there has been a spike in apps, increasingly from regional CAs. Why they came up with "40 heads" just for the contract requirements wasn't explained, but Eric Gust's dream of every CA flying right seat will be destroyed with the TA if it passes. A former instructor asked how they expected to get there from here, they seemed to think with the steady class sizes, they can alleviate the requirements, but in the short term we are criminally short on FOs, so who really knows what they'll do
- Passing this TA will have, from the business side, the effect of predictability for investors, lenders, etc. They seem to think they can get rid of (completely) the -80 by end of 2019. BREXIT and the repercussions of that vote has had an effect of making debt cheaper which allow the company to do more, with respect to growth, quicker and cheaper. Allegedly, the turmoil associated would benefit us, remains to be seen.
- Their view seemed to encompass several different ideas...mainly, suck up an expensive contract (it's going to be expensive, just one SFB/PIE DH goes from maybe costing 100 bucks in DH to a 6ish hour PCH because of duty rig, plus 420 bucks DH, and this nonsense happens every day) to allow for fleet replacement, add 30 more cities (ok...seems undoable at our present fleet strength, but who knows) and try to edge out Spirit/Frontier, both in market share and potentially attracting their workforce (again, who knows)
Personally, I don't care what brought the company to this point, but if it matters to someone to the point that they'll overlook positives in a potential contract, then that is on them. The burn it down guys are all going on about READ THE TA, as if we haven't. Even a cursory glance shows that there is at least a small improvement in every single area in this TA, some improvements are huge. A closer reading and taking any questions to the roadshow with the intent of being objective will reveal that despite some weak areas, everyone will benefit from this contract, some more than others, but that's the way it works out. Cameron and Co did not roll over and sell out our group with this thing. We sent them to do a job and their reading of the situation and window of opportunity brought us to this place. Remains to be seen if people within our group can take the time to see it objectively...
For your information, the LAS union roadshow (and the subsequent ones) highlighted some very good questions that were IMMEDIATELY addressed with the company and is now being worked into clarification language for a binding MOU. Greg U. and Trent Porter are working directly with one another to clean up what is found. The people who were at the LAS roadshow with the company saw it first hand. One of those items was the reference to BLOCK as opposed to PCH when referencing premium pay. The company agreed that PCH is PCH, no matter how you get it and with one exception, all PCH gained above 81 hours, even for sim and ground instructors, is paid at 130%.
Something interesting that came out, not sure if they meant to say it, but the BOD was not particularly happy to hear about how much money this is going to cost. Bricker directly stated that if it the TA goes down, it will be a good while before the process starts up again, Greg U from the union also stated the day prior that if it dies, then we will have a serious battle just trying to get a new mediator, who, it seems, hates us. This fact shouldn't deter anyone from voting "no", but it is actual information to be used.
The idea that the company "all of a sudden" came up with this TA is a misnomer. Greg and Scott discussed how difficult it was just to get the duty rig inserted and was done at the 11th hour. The company didn't just throw this thing on a table and the union said "ok", negotiations were still happening. Of course, when you hear the company say how it was aggressively working for the last year, we all hear blah, blah, blah and for good reason, but the process was being worked, regardless of motivation.
Speaking of motivation, an offhand remark from Bricker intimated that there may be more to the AB purchase than can be attributed to rumor. Anyone who has heard him talk knows he wants to continue to grow the company and he had some interesting thoughts going forward:
- Indefinite hiring of 14/mo was specifically stated, there has been a spike in apps, increasingly from regional CAs. Why they came up with "40 heads" just for the contract requirements wasn't explained, but Eric Gust's dream of every CA flying right seat will be destroyed with the TA if it passes. A former instructor asked how they expected to get there from here, they seemed to think with the steady class sizes, they can alleviate the requirements, but in the short term we are criminally short on FOs, so who really knows what they'll do
- Passing this TA will have, from the business side, the effect of predictability for investors, lenders, etc. They seem to think they can get rid of (completely) the -80 by end of 2019. BREXIT and the repercussions of that vote has had an effect of making debt cheaper which allow the company to do more, with respect to growth, quicker and cheaper. Allegedly, the turmoil associated would benefit us, remains to be seen.
- Their view seemed to encompass several different ideas...mainly, suck up an expensive contract (it's going to be expensive, just one SFB/PIE DH goes from maybe costing 100 bucks in DH to a 6ish hour PCH because of duty rig, plus 420 bucks DH, and this nonsense happens every day) to allow for fleet replacement, add 30 more cities (ok...seems undoable at our present fleet strength, but who knows) and try to edge out Spirit/Frontier, both in market share and potentially attracting their workforce (again, who knows)
Personally, I don't care what brought the company to this point, but if it matters to someone to the point that they'll overlook positives in a potential contract, then that is on them. The burn it down guys are all going on about READ THE TA, as if we haven't. Even a cursory glance shows that there is at least a small improvement in every single area in this TA, some improvements are huge. A closer reading and taking any questions to the roadshow with the intent of being objective will reveal that despite some weak areas, everyone will benefit from this contract, some more than others, but that's the way it works out. Cameron and Co did not roll over and sell out our group with this thing. We sent them to do a job and their reading of the situation and window of opportunity brought us to this place. Remains to be seen if people within our group can take the time to see it objectively...
Some key points... GO TO A ROADSHOW! Some of the language was written in a less than desirable way. Interpretations are being made by some of you here that are incorrect. Greg U and the rest of the team have been meeting with Trent nearly daily to rewrite and further define interpretations so we are all on the same page.
I can see where a lot of people have heartburn with some of the rules. The roadshows should help to clear some of that up.
07-08-2016 | 08:45 AM
#3578
Line Holder
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
Haven't been to a roadshow yet because they haven't reached my base. I will be going, but am curious to the questions being asked?
1)Have they addressed reserve and calling after block in? Do we have to sit around the airport for 1hr? Would that be considered Standby which is prohibited in this TA?
2)401k? Is it I contribute 5% and company 10% or a max contribution from company of 5% with a 2.5% trigger from employee?
3)Has the company agreed to look at different scheduling software? Are we keeping merlot?
4)What's the definition of positive contact?
Many other questions but let's start there.
1)Have they addressed reserve and calling after block in? Do we have to sit around the airport for 1hr? Would that be considered Standby which is prohibited in this TA?
2)401k? Is it I contribute 5% and company 10% or a max contribution from company of 5% with a 2.5% trigger from employee?
3)Has the company agreed to look at different scheduling software? Are we keeping merlot?
4)What's the definition of positive contact?
Many other questions but let's start there.
07-08-2016 | 09:21 AM
#3579
Thread Starter
Line Holder
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 315
Likes: 11
Haven't been to a roadshow yet because they haven't reached my base. I will be going, but am curious to the questions being asked?
1)Have they addressed reserve and calling after block in? Do we have to sit around the airport for 1hr? Would that be considered Standby which is prohibited in this TA?
2)401k? Is it I contribute 5% and company 10% or a max contribution from company of 5% with a 2.5% trigger from employee?
3)Has the company agreed to look at different scheduling software? Are we keeping merlot?
4)What's the definition of positive contact?
Many other questions but let's start there.
1)Have they addressed reserve and calling after block in? Do we have to sit around the airport for 1hr? Would that be considered Standby which is prohibited in this TA?
2)401k? Is it I contribute 5% and company 10% or a max contribution from company of 5% with a 2.5% trigger from employee?
3)Has the company agreed to look at different scheduling software? Are we keeping merlot?
4)What's the definition of positive contact?
Many other questions but let's start there.
2) give 5% they will contribute 10%. Give 20% they will contribute 10%.
3) I'm hearing Navtech is the direction that we may be headed.
4) Positive voice to voice via phone. VM is only to notify you of a later show time.
Go to roadshow to clarify. I am not a union person but this is what I was told.
07-08-2016 | 09:26 AM
#3580
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 107
Likes: 0
1) They have up to one hour to say "we still need you" but no you don't have to be at airport.
2) give 5% they will contribute 10%. Give 20% they will contribute 10%.
3) I'm hearing Navtech is the direction that we may be headed.
4) Positive voice to voice via phone. VM is only to notify you of a later show time.
Go to roadshow to clarify. I am not a union person but this is what I was told.
2) give 5% they will contribute 10%. Give 20% they will contribute 10%.
3) I'm hearing Navtech is the direction that we may be headed.
4) Positive voice to voice via phone. VM is only to notify you of a later show time.
Go to roadshow to clarify. I am not a union person but this is what I was told.
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