Allegiant Air
10-27-2020, 08:24 AM
#6261
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2020
Position: Airbus Captain
Posts: 62
Originally Posted by Margaritaville
Most of the people who feel this way are senior in base and seat, therefore it doesn't affect them, so they don't care. "I'm in! Quick, pull up the ladder"!
There's a lot that needs to be improved in this place, and just because it hasn't hit you yet, doesn't mean it won't. I guarantee, when it does, the two or you will be whining the loudest on the union's ***** page.
There's a lot that needs to be improved in this place, and just because it hasn't hit you yet, doesn't mean it won't. I guarantee, when it does, the two or you will be whining the loudest on the union's ***** page.
Get a clue snowflake. Your fellow ‘senior’ pilots worked here for $80/ hr max CA pay flying the shady 80 as far N as Alaska and S to Mexico. Our reserve days were R -all day reserve, if they called you were it. Then years of keeping the 80 flying for $150/hr max CA pay. So enjoy your Teamsters’ Contract and Airbus Aircraft...We’ve all had our ride in Larry’s Limmo.
10-27-2020, 09:47 AM
#6262
It's 5 o'clock somewhere
Joined APC: Oct 2020
Posts: 1,853
Originally Posted by SloNLow
Get a clue snowflake. Your fellow ‘senior’ pilots worked here for $80/ hr max CA pay flying the shady 80 as far N as Alaska and S to Mexico. Our reserve days were R -all day reserve, if they called you were it. Then years of keeping the 80 flying for $150/hr max CA pay. So enjoy your Teamsters’ Contract and Airbus Aircraft...We’ve all had our ride in Larry’s Limmo.
My heart bleeds that you had to fly the Shady 80 to podunk for $80 an hour. It was probably a great opportunity for you at the time though. You certainly knew what you were getting into. Typically, you're just another senior person who thinks everyone else should suffer because you did. Yawn. I'm betting you did none of this, and you're just another little management troll here to lower expectations. captnate702, is that you?
Those of us who came here after 2012 have different career expectations. I will enjoy my Teamsters contract and my Airbus Aircraft. Deal with it, snowflake.
All you did was prove my point. Now climb out from under Maury's desk and take a breath.
10-27-2020, 03:47 PM
#6263
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2020
Position: A320 CA
Posts: 648
Originally Posted by Margaritaville
Calling people snowflakes! Wow, how original! Excellent rebuttal! You just come up with that one pops? As usual, those who call others snowflakes are the first and most offended, like you, now.
My heart bleeds that you had to fly the Shady 80 to podunk for $80 an hour. It was probably a great opportunity for you at the time though. You certainly knew what you were getting into. Typically, you're just another senior person who thinks everyone else should suffer because you did. Yawn. I'm betting you did none of this, and you're just another little management troll here to lower expectations. captnate702, is that you?
Those of us who came here after 2012 have different career expectations. I will enjoy my Teamsters contract and my Airbus Aircraft. Deal with it, snowflake.
All you did was prove my point. Now climb out from under Maury's desk and take a breath.
My heart bleeds that you had to fly the Shady 80 to podunk for $80 an hour. It was probably a great opportunity for you at the time though. You certainly knew what you were getting into. Typically, you're just another senior person who thinks everyone else should suffer because you did. Yawn. I'm betting you did none of this, and you're just another little management troll here to lower expectations. captnate702, is that you?
Those of us who came here after 2012 have different career expectations. I will enjoy my Teamsters contract and my Airbus Aircraft. Deal with it, snowflake.
All you did was prove my point. Now climb out from under Maury's desk and take a breath.
If you came here after 2012 then you also know what you signed up for. You accuse us of being pathetic, complacent low-lifes without the stones to go somewhere else. What about you? You knew what management was all about when they rolled Merlot w/o even thinking to discuss it with us. That was a total disaster by management and their solution was CBI - why didn't you leave then? You were here during the negotiations and saw how difficult it was to get our contract on property. Why are you still here? Why didn't you leave?
I for one, do actually like sleeping in my own bed night (especially with the 80 gone). I value time with my family and loath the idea of commuting to work at this airline because it just wouldn't work for me.
Are there problems here with management, absolutely and as long as Maury and his cronies are breathing we will continue to have problems. But that doesn't mean there aren't very legitimate reasons to work here. Don't forget, we were middle of the industry for Airbus 320 compensation with our contract. There is no doubt that we will, at a minimum, jump F9 and NK when we negotiate our next contract. So there are plenty of reasons why a pilot might choose to work here. Even if this is the last place you'd want to be, pilots will come here because the aftermath of the pandemic is going to last until at least 2025, probably til 2028. There will be more pilots than job openings so all this doom gloom about why would anybody with a half a brain want to come and work; and the company is never gonna be able to fill another class is hot air and ignores the reality of this place and the industry at large.
10-27-2020, 04:57 PM
#6264
It's 5 o'clock somewhere
Joined APC: Oct 2020
Posts: 1,853
Originally Posted by captnate702
Wow... no need to get so personal. So now everybody that disagrees with you is a management troll (like myself) or $&#*!%& Maury's @!%#? Give it a break and calm down.
If you came here after 2012 then you also know what you signed up for. You accuse us of being pathetic, complacent low-lifes without the stones to go somewhere else. What about you? You knew what management was all about when they rolled Merlot w/o even thinking to discuss it with us. That was a total disaster by management and their solution was CBI - why didn't you leave then? You were here during the negotiations and saw how difficult it was to get our contract on property. Why are you still here? Why didn't you leave?
I for one, do actually like sleeping in my own bed night (especially with the 80 gone). I value time with my family and loath the idea of commuting to work at this airline because it just wouldn't work for me.
Are there problems here with management, absolutely and as long as Maury and his cronies are breathing we will continue to have problems. But that doesn't mean there aren't very legitimate reasons to work here. Don't forget, we were middle of the industry for Airbus 320 compensation with our contract. There is no doubt that we will, at a minimum, jump F9 and NK when we negotiate our next contract. So there are plenty of reasons why a pilot might choose to work here. Even if this is the last place you'd want to be, pilots will come here because the aftermath of the pandemic is going to last until at least 2025, probably til 2028. There will be more pilots than job openings so all this doom gloom about why would anybody with a half a brain want to come and work; and the company is never gonna be able to fill another class is hot air and ignores the reality of this place and the industry at large.
If you came here after 2012 then you also know what you signed up for. You accuse us of being pathetic, complacent low-lifes without the stones to go somewhere else. What about you? You knew what management was all about when they rolled Merlot w/o even thinking to discuss it with us. That was a total disaster by management and their solution was CBI - why didn't you leave then? You were here during the negotiations and saw how difficult it was to get our contract on property. Why are you still here? Why didn't you leave?
I for one, do actually like sleeping in my own bed night (especially with the 80 gone). I value time with my family and loath the idea of commuting to work at this airline because it just wouldn't work for me.
Are there problems here with management, absolutely and as long as Maury and his cronies are breathing we will continue to have problems. But that doesn't mean there aren't very legitimate reasons to work here. Don't forget, we were middle of the industry for Airbus 320 compensation with our contract. There is no doubt that we will, at a minimum, jump F9 and NK when we negotiate our next contract. So there are plenty of reasons why a pilot might choose to work here. Even if this is the last place you'd want to be, pilots will come here because the aftermath of the pandemic is going to last until at least 2025, probably til 2028. There will be more pilots than job openings so all this doom gloom about why would anybody with a half a brain want to come and work; and the company is never gonna be able to fill another class is hot air and ignores the reality of this place and the industry at large.
10-27-2020, 07:47 PM
#6265
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2020
Position: A320 CA
Posts: 648
Originally Posted by Margaritaville
More like USAir 1988-2004.
Another management troll? If only you guys spent as much time running this "airline" (travel company), as you spend trolling this site and lowering expectations.
Systemic contract violations. Abuse of fly now, grieve later. Openly violating every section of the CBA and laughing in our faces about it. Suing arbitrators who rule against them. 1000s of grievances filed, scores awaiting arbitration. They are tying to run the union out of money.
Laying off 20% of our pilots (40% of FOs), creating a massive understaffing situation. Furloughees being used as a political football by the company. Requiring the remaining pilots to work 90+ hour lines. Widespread junior manning in a traditionally slow flying month.
Creating a new term they call "vacancy reductions" that's unheard of in the industry. Using this new term instead of the traditional "displacement" to realign the bases. Those whose "vacancy is reduced" will get bumped out of their domicile, and will not get bump/flush displacement rights to displace to a base they want. Instead, they will be forced to bid vacancies that the company stipulates. This will cause seniority inversions across the system. Senior people will get bumped out of southern bases where they live, and forced to commute to places like Des Moines, Grand Rapids, Allentown, Indianapolis, or Pittsburgh in January. Worse, they announced this with a disclaimer that if the union starts playing ball with them in the next 10 days, all of this horror may go away.
Abuse of reserves:
4 hour "limo" (2003 Saturn) rides to remote bases at 50% deadhead pay.
Taking away "golden days" (immovable per the CBA), and assigning trips or even reserve shifts. Chief pilots agree it's wrong but have no power to stop it.
Reserves being given rental cars and told to drive 4 hours then fly an 8 hour trip. Threat of "no show" if they refuse.
Calling reserves at 3AM when shift starts, to notify of an 11AM show "because they can".
Calling reserves late into a shift to "release" them, attempting to trap them into a "no contact", because they can.
All of this because the union refuses to give them contract concessions. The company's last proposal, which the union rightfully shot down, was a 60% pay cut for the bottom 275 pilots, which would have put them on a B Scale. They would have been making close to minimum wage on 1st year pay. Other proposals have included the ability to place pilots on reduced or even zero hour lines, irrespective of seniority. It's worth noting that the company has steadily increased their cash position throughout the pandemic, while reducing their daily cash burn. They keep bragging to their investors what great shape the company is in, and even talk about all the opportunities the pandemic is creating. The executive in charge of the mothballed resort project got $15 million dollars in total compensation. We are currently the lowest paid airbus pilots in the USA.
So yeah, this company has rewritten the book on union busting. The work environment here makes the bottom feeder regionals look good. This is the worst it's been since 2014. When times are good and things are growing this place is fine to work at, but as soon as they get bad, management turns on the employees. It comes all the way down from the top. It's a totally toxic management culture. They truly hate us. This has been a huge wake up call for all the pilots hired post contract, who thought everything was great here. Unfortunately, this is the real Allegiant Air.
I hope those in the future think twice before coming to work here, when they look back at this time capsule. Browse the posts from 2014-2015 as well. This is this company's true culture. Consider yourself warned. Sleeping in your own bed every night is useless when they ship you all over the country on reserve or bump/TDY you out of your home base for months on end.
Another management troll? If only you guys spent as much time running this "airline" (travel company), as you spend trolling this site and lowering expectations.
Systemic contract violations. Abuse of fly now, grieve later. Openly violating every section of the CBA and laughing in our faces about it. Suing arbitrators who rule against them. 1000s of grievances filed, scores awaiting arbitration. They are tying to run the union out of money.
Laying off 20% of our pilots (40% of FOs), creating a massive understaffing situation. Furloughees being used as a political football by the company. Requiring the remaining pilots to work 90+ hour lines. Widespread junior manning in a traditionally slow flying month.
Creating a new term they call "vacancy reductions" that's unheard of in the industry. Using this new term instead of the traditional "displacement" to realign the bases. Those whose "vacancy is reduced" will get bumped out of their domicile, and will not get bump/flush displacement rights to displace to a base they want. Instead, they will be forced to bid vacancies that the company stipulates. This will cause seniority inversions across the system. Senior people will get bumped out of southern bases where they live, and forced to commute to places like Des Moines, Grand Rapids, Allentown, Indianapolis, or Pittsburgh in January. Worse, they announced this with a disclaimer that if the union starts playing ball with them in the next 10 days, all of this horror may go away.
Abuse of reserves:
4 hour "limo" (2003 Saturn) rides to remote bases at 50% deadhead pay.
Taking away "golden days" (immovable per the CBA), and assigning trips or even reserve shifts. Chief pilots agree it's wrong but have no power to stop it.
Reserves being given rental cars and told to drive 4 hours then fly an 8 hour trip. Threat of "no show" if they refuse.
Calling reserves at 3AM when shift starts, to notify of an 11AM show "because they can".
Calling reserves late into a shift to "release" them, attempting to trap them into a "no contact", because they can.
All of this because the union refuses to give them contract concessions. The company's last proposal, which the union rightfully shot down, was a 60% pay cut for the bottom 275 pilots, which would have put them on a B Scale. They would have been making close to minimum wage on 1st year pay. Other proposals have included the ability to place pilots on reduced or even zero hour lines, irrespective of seniority. It's worth noting that the company has steadily increased their cash position throughout the pandemic, while reducing their daily cash burn. They keep bragging to their investors what great shape the company is in, and even talk about all the opportunities the pandemic is creating. The executive in charge of the mothballed resort project got $15 million dollars in total compensation. We are currently the lowest paid airbus pilots in the USA.
So yeah, this company has rewritten the book on union busting. The work environment here makes the bottom feeder regionals look good. This is the worst it's been since 2014. When times are good and things are growing this place is fine to work at, but as soon as they get bad, management turns on the employees. It comes all the way down from the top. It's a totally toxic management culture. They truly hate us. This has been a huge wake up call for all the pilots hired post contract, who thought everything was great here. Unfortunately, this is the real Allegiant Air.
I hope those in the future think twice before coming to work here, when they look back at this time capsule. Browse the posts from 2014-2015 as well. This is this company's true culture. Consider yourself warned. Sleeping in your own bed every night is useless when they ship you all over the country on reserve or bump/TDY you out of your home base for months on end.
10-27-2020, 08:09 PM
#6266
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,182
Originally Posted by captnate702
Pot, meet Kettle.
Some will value being home every night and they could care less how they are treated. You appear to fall into that category. To each their own. Everyone has to do what they have to do.
10-28-2020, 05:58 AM
#6267
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: A320 CA
Posts: 588
Originally Posted by Margaritaville
Thanks for the summary.
How about telling us what the schedules are like at Spirit? Hotel quality? Long overnights or SWA style with 5 legs and then 12 hours at the Holiday Inn Express? Productive trips? Contract compliance? Lots of red eyes like Frontier? Good maintenance? Are the passengers really as bad as the media portrays? Management/union relationship?
You guys going to be hiring next year?
How about telling us what the schedules are like at Spirit? Hotel quality? Long overnights or SWA style with 5 legs and then 12 hours at the Holiday Inn Express? Productive trips? Contract compliance? Lots of red eyes like Frontier? Good maintenance? Are the passengers really as bad as the media portrays? Management/union relationship?
You guys going to be hiring next year?
hotels are mostly good, 2 in most cities long stay/short stay
few token 4 leg days but most are 1-3 legs
soft time with our min duty period/duty rigs
yes redeyes from lax/las and some jungle redeye turns
our mx is very good now
our pax are not that bad, the first time/novice fliers are usually cause of issues
they did a great job mitigating furloughs and in general pilots are treated very well
as far as hiring..ive heard this summer but who knows with the rona or new/dif travel restrictions if Biden wins
10-31-2020, 03:58 PM
#6268
New Hire
Joined APC: Nov 2019
Posts: 3
Hey everyone!
Hey guys. I was one of the first 100 pilots to get furloughed. First furlough. I accept it. I’m just curious when all of you think we might get called back? Does it seem to be turning around? I miss the job and really wanted to work here and still want to stay here for my career. I haven’t really applied anywhere else but some of my friends are saying the regionals won’t Call them back and it’s competitive due to the market. plus I don’t want to go through another new hire training just to get called back. I liked everyone I worked with, liked my base, liked being home every night. I hope to come back soon. Went back to working at a bike shop like in my highschool days and lemme say it’s not nearly as fun as flying. Forgot how much standing for 10 hours a day isn’t fun. Thanks for your input.
10-31-2020, 06:03 PM
#6269
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2012
Posts: 549
Originally Posted by MattDamon
Hey guys. I was one of the first 100 pilots to get furloughed. First furlough. I accept it. I’m just curious when all of you think we might get called back? Does it seem to be turning around? I miss the job and really wanted to work here and still want to stay here for my career. I haven’t really applied anywhere else but some of my friends are saying the regionals won’t Call them back and it’s competitive due to the market. plus I don’t want to go through another new hire training just to get called back. I liked everyone I worked with, liked my base, liked being home every night. I hope to come back soon. Went back to working at a bike shop like in my highschool days and lemme say it’s not nearly as fun as flying. Forgot how much standing for 10 hours a day isn’t fun. Thanks for your input.
11-01-2020, 02:39 AM
#6270
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 173
Originally Posted by 9easy
Check back in a week after the election. If Biden wins, we're going to follow the European model and probably lock everything down and it's going to be a bad 2021. This isn't meant to be a political statement, just head over to pprune.org and see how the European and Asia pilots are doing, it's pretty depressing.
Here is what I think about how the election will affect the furlough.
Biden wins and Democrats take Senate: Stimulus is passed in January, Allegiant starts bringing pilots in March.
Trump wins and Republicans take Senate: they might even pass a stimulus in the lame duck session. Back sooner.
Biden wins and Republicans have the Senate, this is the worst case, no large stimulus. But an airline bail out could still be part of a much smaller package.
Basically I'm guessing by April for all except the too close to call civil unrest/civil war, Joint Chiefs of Staff decides who the president is scenario.
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