I know, it is 2B-8, in START, Prior to Departure. But I'm asking in relation to the flows.

That prior to departure section is listed just prior to the Preflight Flow, but I don't think it has to be done then. The departure brief is also chronologically listed prior to this flow in the flow guide, but I think it would be a good idea to do it after the Preflight Flow to have the CVR on.

There is flexibility allowed in the flows, but I think that folks will fall into a patter of what/when. Just wondered how folks on the line are doing it and have you seen any variation. I realize it's early.

 

I've had some guys say get in the airplane, do the Origination Flow, then get ATIS and PDC. Load the box and do route verification, brief THEN Preflight and Before Takeoff Flow. I've had others say do the Origination Flow, get ATIS and PDC then do Preflight Flows, then route verification and brief, then Before Start flows.

 

The new flows in the 190 aren't too bad. With the Origination Flow, the OM says it will "normally be accomplished by one pilot, normally the FO, but may be acccomplished by either pilot or collaboratively by both pilots.". It's definitely a little confusing if pilots are doing it "collaboratively", which is basically the old way we did it. If you do it "collaboratively", who does what?

Just got off a trip with a Captain who hadn't used the new flows/checklists either and there were definitely growing pains. I would say that whoever's leg it is does the Origination and loads the box while the other pilot goes out and does the exterior, but if you're flying with a Captain who sees "normally done by the first officer" and then the exterior inspection says, "normally accomplished by the first officer" then you've got one dude/dudet doing pretty much everything (the FO).

The new checklists, with the Captain or PF responding first to the challenger was a bit awkward, but by the end of a 4-day it got smoother. I'm still not sure I like it. The Captain is put on the spot with some of the responses, which just requires getting used to having that info out or written down for quick reference. In the past, it was normally just the FO needing to have that stuff readily available.

 

A lot of the responses by the captain are challenging when taxiing, especially at night. You have to reference things that aren’t easy to see quickly, like the min TO fuel.

I get being standard between fleets but sometimes something’s gotta give.

 

I agree. I believe the intent to some of these new flows and checklist was to eliminate doing a lot of things during Taxi but it is awkward when the captain's looking around the cockpit for the information to respond to the FO during taxi when his or her eyes should be outside.

 

Today was my first day on the line with the new procedures. My biggest beef with the new checklist on the Boeings is that it completely disregards the mechanical checklist and it's purpose. The new checklist seems choppy and doesn't flow well. The whole point of having the mechanical checklist is so that some items can be done out of order. It just doesn't make any sense.

 

I’ve noticed the same with the mechanical checklist. Expect several revisions.

 

Doesn’t make any sense on the AB either.

I think this is all the result of some pee pee contest by a couple of guys high up in training. Whomever won out just did it to prove he was more important.

Dropped a turd in every punch bowl.

There’s nothing about these flows and checklists which is an improvement in any way. The Capt is heads down very close to the end of the runway looking for fuel numbers.... (what could ever go wrong there?)

And the implementation was the worst thing I have ever seen in an airplane. It was simply shameful to turn everyone loose and say “have at it, just be careful.” No training. Hell-we do have a couple of videos now, but they have mistakes. Not sure how helpful that is.

Whomever made this decision: You had one job. Just one job.

I am disgusted to know that whomever cocked this up so badly gets paid a big enough mgmt bonus to buy a house each year.

 

Well, so what is our avenue to get it fixed?

 

^^^THIS x a million! You’ve nailed my impressions of this whole debacle perfectly.

28 years in this business and I’ve never seen anything so poorly thought out and implemented. My prediction is the company will see a big increase in ASAP reports going forward.