Turns out the flow is a “usual metric”!!

Maybe I don’t volunteer, maybe I did not get A’s in basket weaving and accounting, maybe I don’t know anyone at AA.

Maybe I don’t care.

But I can check a box that says “did you go to a WO until your number came up”

CHECK

None of those maybe’s take away from someone’s ability to aviate. Nor do any of the above make you a better aviator in any way shape or form. Don’t kid yourself!!

After 11,000 hours and 25,000 landings I can fly a plane.

 

Thats not a good analogy. Once again, you are assuming that all flows are trying to get out of the WO to the first airline that calls and only flow if no one else calls. That's not true. A lot of the flows have no desire to go to anywhere but AA and AA pretty much only hires through the flow or military. We all weren't passed up by United, Delta, UPS, and FedEx. They didn't get to cherry pick all the good candidates and AA is left with just ok ones. A good portion of us never even apply to those places because we didn't want to work there.

Sure if a guy has a competitive resume to all those other airlines and is still a long way to flow, then they would be dumb to not apply to the others. However, if a guy still needs time at the regionals to be competitive and AA is their 1st choice then there is nothing wrong with waiting to flow. Think of it as their interview is successfully working at a WO for around a decade. If they have attitude problems, they will probably wash out before their probation year is over. I'd bet that is a very small percentage.

 

I fail to see the problem with this. As long as they are a good pilot and good to work with, then why does it matter if someone chooses the safer route? Seems smart to me. Personally, I wouldn't have ever considered an LCC or ULCC because that is not where I wanted to spend the rest of my career and didn't want to risk getting stuck there. Also I promise that there was nothing easy about working at Envoy for 8.5 years, but it got me to where I ultimately wanted to be, so I'm grateful for the opportunity that it gave me.

 

But can I get along with you on a 4 day trip???? Or are u a questionable personality!

Flying is the easy part in this job!

FedEx and others ask for extensive criteria in hiring for good reasons! AA WO Flow simply a bottom line (financial) gimmick. They could not care less about personality qualities. Just a number to fill the bottom line and push through training as quickly as possible. Not saying fog a mirror & your hired minimum criteria. But still a numbers game in a dwindling pool.


If AA WO pilots are completing flights on time and doing it cheaply then it’s logical to hire those same pilots via the flow to get the job done and to do it cheaply in the future for Mainline (is the purpose of flow & managements strategic thought process . PERIOD.

 

There is absolutely no problem with this, but you are further proving my point while contradicting what you stated earlier in that most of the flows really want to go to AA and nowhere else. This is simply not the case or most of those pilots would be applying and making a serious effort to get in the door as quickly as possible.

For example, take one of my friends who was hired off the street at AA a few years ago and recently became one of the youngest CAs, if not the youngest, at American. Do you think that guy went to Envoy and waited on a flow thru program? Dude really wanted to be there and made it happen without the flow.

I'm genuinely happy that you ended up where you ultimately wanted to be, but don't kid yourself that everyone else feels the same way about AA being the end all be all for themselves. Again from my experience and the pilots THAT I PERSONALLY KNOW, none are making a concerted effort to get there outside of the flow program. It does not make any one of them any less of a pilot, it just is what it is. They evidently just don't want to be at AA that badly, but will gladly take it as a handout. Like I said earlier, the path of least resistance. Pilots are lazy by nature and we know this because we're all pilots. You can't BS the BSer.

 

Hopefully everyone wants to do a good job and get it done. I’ll let you guys decide on how cheap.

We can get along just fine. When I show up I’ll say Sir or Ma’am and please and thank you. I will be very happy to be in the right seat.

I hide it very well. Just thank god there are no 150 day pairings. I tend to to break down by the 150th day in a row at work.

 

Believe what you want, personally AA was always my first choice and I went to American Eagle to try to get a foot in the door at AA before the flow even existed. I didn’t go to Envoy for the flow, but I also didn’t leave for an LCC or ULCC because of it. Which is exactly why it exist. AA was always my first choice and I didn’t even apply anywhere else, not because I’m lazy but because I didn’t want to work anywhere else. It’s not that we weren’t good enough to get hired somewhere else. I know for a fact there are others like me.

You say we are lazy by waiting for the flow, but by the time most people are competitive for a legacy job they are already about to flow. Good for your friend, AA does not hire many people from the WO outside of the flow. I know of a few, but it’s pretty rare. AA doesn’t hire many from anywhere that isn’t from the flow or military. There’s nothing wrong with getting in off the street either if you can, so that’s good for him.

There’s a lot of self-righteousness in this thread. Some just want to feel superior to the flows because they got hired the traditional way. Whatever the reason someone chooses to flow to AA, it doesn’t automatically mean they are an inferior candidate than someone hired off the street. Which is exactly what some are saying, by their candy and milk and cream analogies.

 

I don’t understand why there has to be different groups within the pilot group. Everyone has a path that eventually led them to where they want to be, and personally I enjoy hearing different stories. I’ve had awesome trips and trips where I could not wait to be done flying with guys from all backgrounds.
I know of guys who turned down jobs at other legacies because the flow was so close. Others that have flowed to AA have since left to be where they really wanted to be. There will always be the select few who cause issues, however I believe that’s a minority.
Instead of focusing on who’s here or should be here I say we all come together as a collective pilot group and focus on things that really matter.

 

Thank you. Very well said.

 

I second that!!