eaglefly

If the TA fails, the judge will rule in AMR's favor and abrogate the current CBA. It's then up to AMR what they want to impose. The judge won't decide that, AMR will. That being said, I think the TA has a very good chance of faliure as aside from being obscenely deficient relative to the competitive landscape, it has very little final contractual language and therefore has no real meaning.

I'd rather wander around in a contractual abyss r an indeterminate period of time then chain myself to a decade of that garbage any day of the week and twice on August 8th.

Mesabah

AA has not met the requirements of the 1113(c) process to have the judge reject the contract.

I'm an expert in labor law and bankruptcy. I've been through 5 of them personally. Going on number 6 right now.

eaglefly

I'd love for you to be right. But to find that out, it will require a rejection of the TA. Based on what I know from other sources vs. a regional airline captain who claims to be an expert on labor law and bankruptcy on a pilots forum, I hope you'll not be offended if I place my bets on what other sources say.

Mesabah

No, I'm not offended you've got to do what you've got to do.

I've had my contract rejected, and every time it was a non-event. Management can only impose certain terms that are in the 1113(c) filing and you must eventually work towards a new CBA. Also, management must remove all the scope relief proposals from an imposed contract as this violates the right of free union association(violation of labor law). For scope relief to take effect, management must have a consensual agreement with the pilot group.

But I will tell you that even if you do vote this TA down, AA management will not allow the 1113(c) judgement to be released as it would weaken their position. Go back in my post history around the time when the judge said he was ready to rule, I posted that AA management with the union would stall the judge to not render his decision. They will do it again if this TA is shot down.

eaglefly

As far as abrogation, you need to read the court transcripts, especially the judges closing statements. Every airline BK is different and this BK and this judge (his first BK proceeding) aren't the same as the ones you experienced. I still stand by my belief the judge will abrogate. Again, what happens then is up to AMR as is the timing.

I'm voting no and what will happen, will happen.

Mesabah

I've read them. What will happen is the judge will deny the company's 1113(c) in its current form, ask AA management to remove the scope relief, and then refile the motion. The Judge will then rule with the company for contract rejection. The cuts will be deeper, but scope will be preserved.

eaglefly

You should be the next "Miss Cleo". ;-)

alfaromeo

Please, no one make any decision based on this guy's advice. He thinks he is an expert but he is not. His ideas are just internet trash talk. American pilots should listen to what their union and the lawyers are saying and make their decision based on that. Almost everything this guy says is wrong.

eaglefly

Well, in this case it appears MANY are NOT listening to the union or their advisors and for compelling reasons. This TA has a very real chance of failure. As for Miss Cleo, she's definitely convinced herself that she's the guru of all airline chapter 11's.

If judge Lane stands by his verbal implications, he'll grant the debtors motion to abrogate, albeit it sounds reluctantly. AMR has little chance of rebuilding AA without defined, stable labor costs going forward. They couldn't even do it WITH that in the past.

alfaromeo

Look, the American pilots will decide their fate and whatever they decide is the right choice. My only concern is that anyone who listens to this internet pseudo intellectual legal crap is doing themselves a disservice. Seek advice from the bankruptcy lawyers and not from webboard warriors.