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Union members to vote on American deal

Old 11-22-2012, 09:36 AM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by Trip7 View Post
Airbuses at Eagle how?

Lower limit on seats and weights for regional feed aircraft
–76 seats, 86,000 lb. limit matches agreements at Delta and United


"I want to make clear that this is not a fantasy game of Dungeons and Dragons or Call of Duty. We are not on a fictional crusade to slay a mythical dragon or gun down the opposition. This is not a remake of “Braveheart.” This is our future, and it is imperative that you understand that we currently hold that future in our hands."
The larger aircraft can be aquired by another carrier via codesharing. The worry is that it will be AE once they are sold and become independant. Our President is not in touch with a large portion of the membership and thus the reason for his offensive PR statements.

You're on the outside looking in, so it's understandable you have little clue to what is happening here.
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Old 11-22-2012, 10:13 AM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by 7576FO View Post
Dec. 7 I'm a NO!

On our message board many are calling No voters "emotional" again.

I just cannot give that much on Scope.

AMR and the media portray this as a 4% raise, 2% raise the next year, 2% raise the next year then industry standard the 4th year of this 6 year deal.
So that NEVER NEVER NEVER could we AA pilots raise the bar like DAL UAL and SWA (UAL + 3% or DAL + 3%). Yet the loss of night pay, the loss of Int'l override pay on reserve (if you don't fly on reserve you don't get int'l override pay of CA $6 hr and FO $4.00 hr) For me becomes a small pay cut.

If this passes even though i'm voting NO, I would have to apologize for AA pilots never able to raise the bar for our fellow aviators(trix's) at the other majors.

We have never raised the bar in my career. For that i'm truly sorry.

I have lots of fight in me! I will fight.

Thanks you to the pilots of United Airlines and the pilots of Delta Airlines for standing firm and raising the bar. I regret that my compatriots at AA seem to not want to fight for what is rightfully all of our profession.

This contract would if passed with it's subjective words, would allow only a ISC never an ILC for the next decade.

7576FO
You already gave on scope -- the judge agreed with the company's 1113(c) motion and rejected our contract. From here on out, the company can do pretty much whatever they want on scope unless we ratify a contract that says otherwise. The scope in the TA is far from perfect, but it's leaps and bounds beyond the term sheet and in the ballpark of UAL/DAL. Voting no is essentially voting yes to no scope.
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Old 11-22-2012, 07:06 PM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by 80drvr View Post
You already gave on scope -- the judge agreed with the company's 1113(c) motion and rejected our contract. From here on out, the company can do pretty much whatever they want on scope unless we ratify a contract that says otherwise. The scope in the TA is far from perfect, but it's leaps and bounds beyond the term sheet and in the ballpark of UAL/DAL. Voting no is essentially voting yes to no scope.
Disagree. Your assumptions above are based on AMR never needing a CBA again and they do. I believe we will have the chance to negotiate again, but when and with who is the question. Still voting no.
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Old 11-23-2012, 06:51 AM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by 7576FO View Post
Dec. 7 I'm a NO!

On our message board many are calling No voters "emotional" again.

I just cannot give that much on Scope.

AMR and the media portray this as a 4% raise, 2% raise the next year, 2% raise the next year then industry standard the 4th year of this 6 year deal.
So that NEVER NEVER NEVER could we AA pilots raise the bar like DAL UAL and SWA (UAL + 3% or DAL + 3%). Yet the loss of night pay, the loss of Int'l override pay on reserve (if you don't fly on reserve you don't get int'l override pay of CA $6 hr and FO $4.00 hr) For me becomes a small pay cut.

If this passes even though i'm voting NO, I would have to apologize for AA pilots never able to raise the bar for our fellow aviators(trix's) at the other majors.

We have never raised the bar in my career. For that i'm truly sorry.

I have lots of fight in me! I will fight.

Thanks you to the pilots of United Airlines and the pilots of Delta Airlines for standing firm and raising the bar. I regret that my compatriots at AA seem to not want to fight for what is rightfully all of our profession.

This contract would if passed with it's subjective words, would allow only a ISC never an ILC for the next decade.

7576FO
"Raising the bar" ??? Give me a break. Not only have the AA pilots failed, so have all pilots in our industry today. The old guard that is now leaving after 30 plus years should be held responsible for allowing the destruction of the airline pilot profession in the U.S. Those who are now coming up through the ranks must also bear responsibility for being so desperate and willing to accept crumbs for their efforts. Actually the real culprits in this sad story are the "associations" and those that so foolishly and blindly follow their lead. If the leaders of our profession had simply held the line, maintaining the purchasing power of our predecessors a narrow body captain would be earning approximately $290k for 75 hours per month. Oh there are those who shriek, “Everybody has taken cuts in every industry over the last few decades.” Really? Let’s see if any of you can tell me what has happened to executive compensation or government workers pay over the same time period? History really is a “B”, isn’t it?
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Old 11-23-2012, 11:33 AM
  #25  
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I would like to ask the no voters a couple questions.

1. What do you expect to happen "reality" not dreamworld if the TA is rejected?
A. Years of term sheet, recalls cancelled, stagnation in all aspects and no merger, no equity payout.
B. AMR to give whatever it is you want and you still get everything already on the plate.

2. Is there anything that would change your mind?

3. Have you listened to the telecon or have all of your questions, doubts or concerns answered before you vote.
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Old 11-23-2012, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by kcpunk View Post
I would like to ask the no voters a couple questions.

1. What do you expect to happen "reality" not dreamworld if the TA is rejected?
A. Years of term sheet, recalls cancelled, stagnation in all aspects and no merger, no equity payout.
B. AMR to give whatever it is you want and you still get everything already on the plate.

2. Is there anything that would change your mind?

3. Have you listened to the telecon or have all of your questions, doubts or concerns answered before you vote.
1. Two answers offered are extremes. Neither is likely. We will just remain in "uncharted territory" and that is not where the UCC wants to be to get the most money from this process.

2. A better future than what this TA offers.

3. Yes. My questions were answered confirming my suspicions, I now have no doubt about what the TA means and no concern that voting against it is the correct thing to do.

"kc".......as in Kansas City ?

You're not one of those senior Ex-TWA captains just looking to cash-in before you bail, are you ?
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Old 11-24-2012, 05:03 PM
  #27  
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I listened to the teleconference. 2 things on scope. "Manage or direct" Eagle or New Entrant and they are limited. I believe they can easily find a way around that.

I'm a NO based on scope alone.
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Old 11-25-2012, 06:00 AM
  #28  
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Any word on the 13.5% fairy dust equity stake?

The APA mailer explaining how this TA is 0.002% different from the LBFO didn't mention anything.

I feel bereft of any meaningful information.
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Old 11-25-2012, 10:20 AM
  #29  
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I've been asked by many "What's your plan if it doesn't pass?" They think i'm emotional. I'm not really. I'm calm. Based upon this scope, I cannot vote YES.
My humble opinion is they could make better changes to scope to assure us they won't turn Eagle or the spin off into a domestic beheamoth. Like UAL has a 900nm leg length with UAX. Something like that.
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Old 11-25-2012, 01:47 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by 7576FO View Post
scope to assure us they won't turn Eagle or the spin off into a domestic beheamoth. Like UAL has a 900nm leg length with UAX. Something like that.
American Eagle CRJ-700

LAX-IAH = 1,200nm
ORD-SLC = 1086nm
ORD-ELP = 1070nm
LAX-OKC = 1,036 nm
ORD-ABQ = 980nm
ORD-SAT = 900nm
LGA-MSP = 887nm
ORD-AUS = 850nm
ORD-IAH = 806nm
ORD-DEN = 773nm
LAX-DEN = 750nm
ORD-MSY = 728nm

American Eagle ERJ

LGA-XNA = 997nm
MIA-PIT = 880nm

Here is just a few that I can think on top of my head! They won't turn Eagle into a behemoth, they already have... And lets not forget the guys that wear blue shirts who carry a substantial number of your passengers, like BOS-DFW & JFK-BOS. You guys have fought hard and we commend you for it but the senior pilots are about to sell the junior guys down the river so that AMR can exit bankruptcy and they can make retirement plans and leave us a pile of sh!t to deal with and a COE who wants to outsource everything he gets his hands on!

"Tom Horton is no friend of labor. His tenure at AT&T is highlighted by the outsourcing of 4,600 overseas. It was only after Horton left AT&T and returned to AMR that the CWA was able to return 2,000 of those jobs to the U.S. Why this matters is because Horton was the proponent behind joint business initiatives with British Airways and Iberia and the code-share with JetBlue"

We Want Our Money Back !!! | Q & A

"From 1998 to 2000, he was vice president responsible for the airline’s Europe business, based in London"

Thomas Horton - Forbes

"We appreciate Tom agreeing to take on this role at this time. He worked hand-in-glove in alliance matters with Gerard Arpey during Gerard's period of tenure as oneworld Chairman and has played a pivotal role in strengthening our alliance through the significant deepening of cooperation between American and so many of our other member airlines in recent years.
PR Newswire (http://s.tt/1sil4)"

American Airlines' Tom Horton Elected oneworld Chairman -- NEW YORK, Dec. 15 2011 /PRNewswire/ --

"As AT&T’s chief financial officer, he led the review of options culminating with a 2005 takeover by SBC Communications Corp."

AMR Insider Horton Brings Deal-Making History at AT&T to Airline CEO Role - Bloomberg

You know what this man is here to do, there might be smoke and mirrors, but you know what he tells you in the Jerwires are pure lies and he is here to drive the unions to the ground and cash in. It is what he has done everywhere else he has been in.
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