I guess that's the Usapain way, i.e., muddy things up so much everything is subjective to ones own POV (actually Usapian POV). Sorry, but I only see three seniority lists, East, West and AA. If you're on the present East seniority list, you're an East pilot. Again, another guy says there are two East lists, so I'll let APA know to look for that if SLI discussions ever start. Following this Usapain logic "3rd list" pilots aren't East pilots and should be considered separately then.

Although I like the more crystal clear interpretation of reality here on Earth, thanks for clearing this up. Not sure how APA will consider this separate list of pilots currently flying East aircraft (if that makes sense), but since they aren't East pilots and are on a separate list, that puts them in their own situation in the SLI.

 

Oh, so that is how it is in Flyland. You can't see things as they are, you aren't active with it, it confuses you, so you just deem it to be that way. Got it.

Newsflash-It's not up to you. A panel of arbitrators will figure out how the SL subsets fit in, including your flow-through subset.

 

Duh, tell me something I don't know. I'm still just trying to quantify irrational Usapian logic that changes with the wind. As far as being "up to me", that's a complicated statement. There are issues regarding that topic that aren't public and very fluid. I can tell you it is a known issue in and of itself on this side of the fence and multiple pilots affected are preparing to be proactive and in the worst case scenario, reactive.

 

Really? Reactive? Huh. You sound just like the most ardent USAPA supporter.

 

In reality there are only two list [ east and west ] at airways not three. In a lame attempt to set a date of hire precedent USAPA and a small part of management at airways has allowed west furloughed pilots that have taken a new hire position on the east list to move ahead of all of the so called third listers. While retaining their positions on the west list. Once again throwing the 2007 to 2014 pilots at airways under the bus. So USAPA has a can of worms to work out a list for the arbitration. VERY CONFUSING!!

 

In reality there are only two list [ east and west ] at airways not three. In a lame attempt to set a date of hire precedent USAPA and a small part of management at airways has allowed west furloughed pilots that have taken a new hire position on the east list to move ahead of all of the so called third listers. While retaining their positions on the west list. Once again throwing the 2007 to 2014 pilots at airways under the bus. So USAPA has a can of worms to work out a list for the arbitration. VERY CONFUSING!!

 

Not sure I see the injustice here. Since third listers were all hired post merger, why wouldn't a west pilot hired pre 2005 be ahead of third listers? I think any anticipated integration would have had "third listers" tacked to the bottom in DOH order anyway. What am I missing?

Capt H

 

Nothing. You're right on the money. BTW most West pilots don't understand that USAPA actually fought to put those West pilots senior to the East new hires. Certainly USAPA had their DOH precedent reasons but it's fair and easy to understand. But it is important to recognize that "Third List" is a real category even if it's a sort of virtual list. If it was just simple East and West lists, then those West pilots who came east would have been placed on the bottom since there is currently no provision for carrying seniority between the two lists.

 

Usapa wants to stack the east list in the belief there never was east/west merger and the snapshot would be taken in 2013 instead of 2005. All third listers were east in 2013 so it stacks the east list if the arbitrators buy off on usapa's theory. So in effect, west junior pilots would be slotted with third listers, that's the east scum hope anyway.

 

This cannot be true and USAPA must believe that there are three lists (meaning separate lists of pilots flying East aircraft), so the East/West snapshot SHOULD be taken in 2005.

According to one pilot here, he is a "third-lister" and confirms he is NOT an East pilot and another third-lister here unequivocally states in response to my replies to the first pilot that as of now (2014), there are two seniority lists on the East side. Even R57, probably the most fervent and supposedly knowledgeable Usapain here, has taken issue of my failure to understand that first third-list pilots explanation of why he isn't an East pilot.

That's 2 separate third-listers and the APC poobah of USAPA all confirming the existence of a completely separate list of pilots flying East aircraft who AREN'T "East" pilots. Of course, this all continues to be explained to me using Usapian logic and I've never understood that logic, but by what they are saying, since there are separate lists on the East and pilots on one of those lists ARE NOT East pilots, it would only make sense they should be considered separately in the SLI. If they were all on one seniority list and all considered "East" pilots, then I can see why they might be considered as one at a later snapshot point.