While his definition of "cost neutral" may be different in the grand scheme of things no matter which way you slice it the amount found in FAVOR of the unions position wouldn't be no where near enough to make up for the monetary difference we potentially could get now.

But the main items so important to the labor groups right now is SCOPE and Profit Sharing. They are OFF THE TABLE. Have you been following the past record of exactly HOW arbitration has been going lately for ALL labor unions?

Not particularly well.

Also, if arbitration is such a bad deal for the Company why doesn't the APA just insist on going there per the MOU and be done with it? We take our chances and let the company blink.

How's that sound?

 

I beg to differ. Arbitration clauses in Agency contracts are NOT put in there to benefit employees. They are in there to LIMIT the time it takes to settle a dispute between the employer and employees without having to go to court. In this particular case the terms of the MOU are pretty clear:

1: No Scope changes
2: No profit sharing
3: Cost neutral

The first two are SOLID in the company's favor. The last part, even if it went totally the way of the union still has to be cost neutral. If the union throws "pie in the sky" arguments to the arbitrator it only diminishes their argument in the eyes of the arbitrator and drives him to the Company side. Same goes for the Company.

It's a double edged sword, to be sure. But not one that favors the union.

 

Here is where I see it going....move on scope or go to arbitration and wait until 2019 when they have even MORE cash in the bank. The company is preparing for arbitration like Missouri is preparing for Ferguson. The writing is on the wall and the APA better have a BETTER plan come 2019.

 

Route66,

It really boils down to two choices:

1) the company provides us with an ILC to which I'll vote in favor for,

2) or, they pass us another turd floating in a bowl to which I'll gladly take my chances in arbitration.

I've been here 15 years and know their M.O. And now they're raking in amazing profits. Sorry, but anything less than an ILC doesn't cut it. They want arbitration, bring it on...then they have to deal with the consequences.

 

Anybody watch the DFW Crew News video? Doug says basically we already have a contract. He's not negotiating a new contract. Without saying it, he says we're going to arbitration.

So, there you go LAA boys. Welcome to the team. Let's see you do what you do now.

 

Rte66,
This isn't the 2001-2010 timeframe where certain airlines were struggling to survive. This is 2014 and the consolidation has formed 4 powerhouse companies. Absolutely not the time to give anything. The days of give backs and cost neutral should be over. To me, it's hard to believe that anyone outside of management(because that is all they know) is even entertaining the idea.. The crisis of the last decade is over. These companies survived because of our sacrifices, are now thriving and it's time to pay up.

 

The company has enough $$ to dictate contract terms AND violate said terms at will.
Perfect storm for labor. You don't want the company so weak they can't keep the lights on - but all your wishes are granted for fear of a stoppage - nor so strong that whatever you do cannot damage them either. I leave it to you to decide the current situation.
Yes they are trying to buy scope now but how are you going to walk around when you your legs are cut off at the knee caps.
But while your eyes are focused on this issue don't be surprised if they don't make an end around for the international flying outsourcing.

 

Good. Sounds like a 1999 hire.

OK. You have the FOM and the FM. So tell me, even if you follow the SOP's PERFECTLY, what EXACTLY are YOU, just YOU, are prepared to do to make the company come to your "coming to Jesus" meeting and make them give YOU what YOU WANT?

Are you planning on changing out the cockpit trash bag every leg instead of "saving the environment" and try to fill it up with trash, first?

I've been here a lot longer. So tell me, WHAT CONSEQUENCES?

 

The days of "give backs and cost neutral" are....OVER? Really?

The crisis of the "last decade(s)" is.....OVER?

Why don't you guys go to the APA web site and re-read (which I just did AGAIN) Lyons bio and the History of APA/ALPA?

It's NEVER over and unions never seem to remember the lessons of what needs to be done. Even Lyons knew this. David L. Behncke, a great leader....not my words (although I agree wholeheartedly) but Dick Lyons. "The five members who would be expelled for life from ALPA in 1963 were Nick O'Connell, Paul Atkins, Bob Guba, Joe Garvey, and Dick Lyons."

First why don't you guys go back and READ....REALLY READ that history and then come back here and ask yourself (look in that mirror):

What did Dave and Dick DO that "made a difference then" and what makes it different now?

Remember, you said it, the times now are different!

What say you?

History of APA

 

If you've been here that long and you don't know the consequences and how these things work, you're an impostor. But we all knew that already.