Latest AA contract proposal
01-03-2015 | 12:56 PM
#272
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Joined: Nov 2014
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The APA BOD work for 15,000 individuals and the NAC have to sell it to the BOD who then approve/disapprove. If they disapprove and they don't explain it to their constituents properly and/or the constituents want it they will recall their reps and get ones in that will approve it. Management doesn't have democratic problems like the union does.
That's why if you can't withhold money from the company you have no leverage.....unless you strike. And no one is going to do that for quite some time.
01-03-2015 | 12:57 PM
#273
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Joined: Nov 2014
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Yup, AA, convinced of their own superiority ditched them years ago, we ditched ALPA. for our own self serving reasons that we are all aware of. Your absolutely correct, we are so self centered that it doesn't mater what we call ourselves. Let's face it, when ALPA failed to establish a national seniority list from the get go we gave up all and any real power. Even as diss functional as the Middle East and it's carriers are at least when one of them starts to tank or treats their pilots poorly they at least can say "fine, I'll go to Etihad, or Royal Jordanian, or whomever. If you don't respect me and my experience as a professional pilot I'll go where they do." We may live in the greatest country in the world but unlike lawyers, doctors, plumbers, electricians, you may be the greatest stick in the squadron, co., etc. but leave and guess what, welcome to the bottom, right beneath the chief pilots 23yr. old son who has only flown the family J-3 and right seat in the local lumber co. C-310. The Parker's, C L Cord's, Lorenzo's et al of the industry have always known they have the ultimate card to play,,,you won't leave because you can't.
01-03-2015 | 01:00 PM
#274
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Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,238
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Sadly, this is the truth. I have often thought about why/how- I think that we just never realized that we were part of labor after deregulation. Many of us come from aviation families. We grew up in the day of the regulated airline. Pilots needed to know that the guy next to him could not take his place by making the company happy. Airlines weren't going under so being hired and getting a seniority number with the company that one would work for until age 60 made perfect sense. It did not sound absurd to let the company "invest" your money in a defined benefit scheme.
It does all boils down to the mentality of the pilot. Even though we knew that the Lorenzo's et al of the industry were making power grabs at our expense, we wanted to believe that losing our pay and retirement were necessary evils of deregulation and oil prices- what else could management do? We would survive and recover. But if we survived, someone else would not. How offensive- the seniority system that was in place pitted pilot against pilot rather than against management. Nearly forty years after deregulation. The airlines adjusted, consolidated. The US is the World's biggest oil producer. More people than ever before have the ability to purchase airline tickets. Where is labor? Have we changed?
...Now that things are good, " I'm shocked, shocked" I tell you, that management now does not want to give it back.
It does all boils down to the mentality of the pilot. Even though we knew that the Lorenzo's et al of the industry were making power grabs at our expense, we wanted to believe that losing our pay and retirement were necessary evils of deregulation and oil prices- what else could management do? We would survive and recover. But if we survived, someone else would not. How offensive- the seniority system that was in place pitted pilot against pilot rather than against management. Nearly forty years after deregulation. The airlines adjusted, consolidated. The US is the World's biggest oil producer. More people than ever before have the ability to purchase airline tickets. Where is labor? Have we changed?
...Now that things are good, " I'm shocked, shocked" I tell you, that management now does not want to give it back.
well said... and of course we all see the sarcasm in the "shocking" behavior of management, but what really does surprise me is how many pilots want to do management's work for them, ie voting yes on a concessionary contract in 2015. None of the gives in this contract are going to a) save the company or b) be returned to you in some monetary form. Its just trimming your bottom line in either pay or work rules so that someone else (management and shareholders) can make money of your hard work, strained home life, and your statistically backed likelihood of an early death after retirement. Believe in your self worth.
Econ 101: Supply and demand.
01-03-2015 | 01:01 PM
#275
La Familia Delta
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,467
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From: B-717 FO / C-17 AC
It stops 14 years of bleeding, and in all likelihood WILL open up a new round of negotiations contrary to the letter that negotations have ceased. The New American is at a crossroads for implementing its new culture. Would you rather have the pilots implement that culture, or have someone ram it down the pilots' throats and make it look like they were doing you a favor? Slice I know you look at the big picture and you have great points and have given me personally a ton of great advice. I know that you do believe in the good of all this. I just don't know that this is being done in good faith on their end (I say that with sincerity). For them to strongarm a pilot group that's been kicked repeatedly over the past 14 years when there is absolutely no reason to do so suggests that this is their way of prodding so see just how weak the pilot group is. They want to pay the least amount of money for the most amount of work, that's of course their goal. But our goal is to draw the line that they will know never to cross. A yes vote means more strongarming in the next contract.
01-03-2015 | 01:11 PM
#276
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 420
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Expectations
The reality is, the company doesn't have to give us jack ****. We have the MTA and the backstop of cost neutral arbitration. Anything we get above that is gravy. If we go to arbitration, we'll lose everything the company is asking for. Their lawyers are better than ours and Arbitrator Block probably has a nice bank account in the Bahamas funded by AAG. APA is to blame for their visions of grandeur. Reality is about to set it.
01-03-2015 | 01:30 PM
#277
La Familia Delta
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,467
Likes: 0
From: B-717 FO / C-17 AC
The reality is, the company doesn't have to give us jack ****. We have the MTA and the backstop of cost neutral arbitration. Anything we get above that is gravy. If we go to arbitration, we'll lose everything the company is asking for. Their lawyers are better than ours and Arbitrator Block probably has a nice bank account in the Bahamas funded by AAG. APA is to blame for their visions of grandeur. Reality is about to set it.
01-03-2015 | 01:32 PM
#278
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,967
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The reality is, the company doesn't have to give us jack ****. We have the MTA and the backstop of cost neutral arbitration. Anything we get above that is gravy. If we go to arbitration, we'll lose everything the company is asking for. Their lawyers are better than ours and Arbitrator Block probably has a nice bank account in the Bahamas funded by AAG. APA is to blame for their visions of grandeur. Reality is about to set it.
01-03-2015 | 02:40 PM
#280
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 581
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You know we agree on some things but I disagree that we are here to put United and Delta out of business. The next frontier is globalization. If we had a problem among ourselves, just imagine how fun this game will be with a pilot from San Juan. The lessons are all right here in front of us. I will be long gone. I hope that the last ten years of my career will be an education to future pilots. I do believe that there is a world wide pilot shortage- but we still can ******* it up. There's still time left for the younger guys to figure it out- but not much.
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