But didn't you also say that the previous offer was the best you were gonna get and you wanted to accept that deal as well? The BOD stood their ground and got you some improvements. Do you really think they were being hardliners? The argument I hear from some yes voters was the BOD was too greedy. Do you agree? Because if that really is the prevailing opinion, maybe we need to define what a "hardliner" is these days. Maybe I'm alone here, but you do have to draw a line somewhere. I think When PBS gets implemented and you find yourself working tirelessly to make only slight improvements in pay, you'll maybe rethink your strategy. I hope that's not true. I hope that you can comfortably get 15-16 days off a month and make 80+ hours pay, but in the case that you end up working 19-20 days for pay in the 70-75 hour range (see my previous examples), you may find yourself bidding reserve for some pay and QOL relief, because you'll have no work rules to protect you, and you'll be relying on the good faith of the company to give you days off as a lineholder that they're not obligated to give. It need not be that way.

 

Full documentation is expected soon to allow everyone to make an informed decision. APA legal counsel EJ has described our expectations of arbitration exactly as I have said for weeks. As per the MOU our pay is set with the most substantial increases in 11.5 months. These will put us above UAL pilots, but still below Delta. ALL Parker's "wants" go sailing right out the window as well as the minor items already tentatively agreed to between the parties. The present Green Book (has that been so bad ?) is the default contract and the arbitration process is STRICTLY to bring the other two contracts in compliance with the Green Book, the only stipulation is that in doing so, the companies costs must not increase.

That can be done without giving Parker any of his wants and as per the MOU, arbitration is NOT an opportunity for Parker to make it something it is not, nor use it to get the "wants" he couldn't achieve through negotiation (which again has been mostly dictation and ultimatum). There is no requirement to "streamline" the Green Book either. APA could simply ask for carve outs for whatever work rules are specific and necessary to the US Airways domiciles to apply to all present and future pilots based there (PHX is likely to lose its present domicile/Hub status within a few years).

The Green Book essentially remains intact, we get slight raises now and the big raise in 2016. We get exposure to additional Delta increases should those occur, we get section 6 a year sooner and most importantly, we remain as a relevant and more cohesive union and negotiating force into the future, instead of a fragmented and broken group of independent contractors all looking out for themselves. There is STRONG likelyhood that such an outcome will at some point compel Parker back to the table and with a bit more respect and propriety.

I've run the financials for myself and I'd have to be crazy just to say no solely for retaliation and/or anger and leave that money. It's TAINTED money though and the price for accepting it is too high. That's the trade in front of us now.

Take a quick buy off and pay the long term price (which is far more devastating) - or- undergo the process we previously agreed to that has a large portion of the pay off already built-in and a contractual description of how the remainder is to be resolved and who and what the boundaries are. The F/A's arbitration followed their guidelines to the letter and so will ours.

 

Well said EF. So with that being said, will arbitration force USAIR bases to establish separate intl/dom bases or will it be status quo? Is this the thing they might fear in arbitration? They clearly fear something about arbitration. Let's find out what that is.

 

The Green Book is the baseline contract. The purpose of arbitration is NOT to streamline any provisions simply because it would be "easier" for management, but to bring the other contracts IN COMPlIANCE with the Green Book provisions. Parker doesn't get to "propose" contractual changes he made but couldn't get, including wholesale combination of divisions and then "offer" a corresponding compensator based on valuation X. This arbitration's purpose doesn't allow that. Neither did the F/A's and when THEY asked for things they couldn't get through negotiation, they were rejected for exactly that reason. Goose and Gander realities here.

The present Green Book has domicile specific provisions already such as carve out flying in DFW and MIA for former TWA, so this is something well within the boundaries of this arbitral result. It would not change PRESENT costs one iota which IS the litmus.

 

I take back what I said earlier, ghilis. We need more guys like you over here.

 

So if one a yes voter is it only about the money at all other costs? I seriously wish PBS had gone into effect this month. I think that this vote would have been a definite no if people realized just how hard they would be worked in terms of days away from home when paper bidding goes away. My main concern is voting yes on this, then seeing the results on QOL when PBS gets implemented will cause major buyers remorse.

 

If the arbitration panel can create carve outs for HBT and dom/intl in the US Air domiciles there is ZERO reason for the US Air pilots to vote No.

We would get none of the benefits of AA contract with all of the downsides of losing the proposed one (pay).

 

You are wrong. The play book used at eagle/envoy is exactly the same play book here. Same deal pushed across and everytime saying this is the final offer. I left eagle just after bankruptcy and have watched this mess go down on both sides. It's amazing people do. It educate themselves with this management team when it's done right in front of them. The strategy was completely transparent.

 

Haha! You'll be happy to know that most of the poolies I'm in contact with are on board with protecting the dignity of our profession and the preservation of our self worth. I commend you and support your group for the amount of pain you suffered over the past 14 years and still did your job like the consummate professionals that you are. You deserve better and I do have high hopes for this group. I'm by no means a hard liner, although from some of the responses I've gotten I'm starting to feel like some think I am. What happened to our profession to make one think that voting no to a contract that lags our peers significantly is a bad thing?

I used to fly for a guy named Connie Kalitta for 7 years .We signed a contract back in 2007 but gave away some daily credit protection and reduced some work rules. While I didn't vote because I was ineligible on probation, I was thrilled about the 1st year pay raise. The end result was a higher pay scale but lower w-2s for everyone because our pay protections and value of a day was reduced to nothing. We worked longer periods of time for the same pay. Today in 2015 I'm watching this exact same scenario unfold at AA, and I want you to heed this warning that the pay rates are a distraction. Your QOL is at risk, and in times of such economic prosperity if you want to sell it, make them pay for it.

 

You sure about that ?

How much of Charlotte could end up with Group I flying and/or elimination of any and all Group III ? How about the same equation in DCA or Philly ? If PHX closes and everyone there needs to move or commute, what do their NEW options look like once they have no future negotiating leverage because Parker has all he wants or needs (not that you care) ?

Many pilots in those doms intend to transfer for various reasons anyway and might have to in the future to maintain their present Group pay scale. What if they contract like PHL to become mostly International Widebody (fed by Group I), but smaller overall ?

Are HBT and combining divisions actually BENEFITS to pilots that you'd be left out of ?

Combined divisions in your domiciles doesn't sound so bad as it exists already and no one is complaining and isn't THAT one of the arguments being made by some Easties as to why Parker's demands aren't so bad ?

HBT isn't a benefit with the exception it may crate additional jobs in SOME domiciles, but I don't recall present East doms being one of them.

Just what are you REALLY missing out on ?