LUS third listers
07-01-2015 | 01:57 PM
#91
Banned
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
Likes: 0
Approximately 10,000 LAA pilots and 5,000 US Airways ?
Again, to what weight the arbitration panel will place on that is unknown, but it SHOULD be considered. The East and West proposals want NO consideration of pre-merger LAA superiority and why should they ?
That doesn't favor their interests and that's what traditional SLI proposals do most of the time..........favor your OWN pilots interests.
07-01-2015 | 01:58 PM
#92
Banned
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,240
Likes: 0
I agree, went through the agreements and I cannot support the claim I made.
However, it is interesting to see the company's take on a new East merger committee to skirt the 9th.
From Siegel:
"Now, from the Company's perspective, we were entirely neutral in the course of that DFR litigation. We took no sides.
But having taken no sides, once we read the injunction, and we have a -- or not the injunction, but the Ninth Circuit ruling, we do not favor attempting to maneuver or to create workarounds on federal court decisions.
And if the purpose of suggesting a new committee be formed is to then be able to assert that the new East committee is not bound like the prior East committee under the USAPA name, by the Court decision, would be to ignore what the Ninth Circuit has said.
And we don't favor that."
However, it is interesting to see the company's take on a new East merger committee to skirt the 9th.
From Siegel:
"Now, from the Company's perspective, we were entirely neutral in the course of that DFR litigation. We took no sides.
But having taken no sides, once we read the injunction, and we have a -- or not the injunction, but the Ninth Circuit ruling, we do not favor attempting to maneuver or to create workarounds on federal court decisions.
And if the purpose of suggesting a new committee be formed is to then be able to assert that the new East committee is not bound like the prior East committee under the USAPA name, by the Court decision, would be to ignore what the Ninth Circuit has said.
And we don't favor that."
07-01-2015 | 02:03 PM
#93
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,166
Likes: 0
Assuming your numbers are correct, wouldn't that still indicates a pre-merger superiority to LAA pilots based on pre-merger pilot counts ?
Approximately 10,000 LAA pilots and 5,000 US Airways ?
Again, to what weight the arbitration panel will place on that is unknown, but it SHOULD be considered. The East and West proposals want NO consideration of pre-merger LAA superiority and why should they ?
That doesn't favor their interests and that's what traditional SLI proposals do most of the time..........favor your OWN pilots interests.
Approximately 10,000 LAA pilots and 5,000 US Airways ?
Again, to what weight the arbitration panel will place on that is unknown, but it SHOULD be considered. The East and West proposals want NO consideration of pre-merger LAA superiority and why should they ?
That doesn't favor their interests and that's what traditional SLI proposals do most of the time..........favor your OWN pilots interests.
07-01-2015 | 02:03 PM
#94
Banned
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,240
Likes: 0
Well, it should be noted that the company has no say in how the lists are merged. They can argue economic impact that excessive delay could cause (and I'm sure they already have) so I'm sure that has impact with the arbitrators in moving the process forward, however what impact that position would have should USAPA find a way to successfully hold the process hostage through the courts is unknown, at least as of now. I would think any success by USAPA in court litigation to stall the process would be on the merits alone as opposed to any economics suffered by the company. If that were the case, Parker could have successfully forced a resolution on the two parties back before the merger.
07-01-2015 | 02:14 PM
#95
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,513
Likes: 66
From: MD-11 FO
Still a lot of emotion. You need to get over the "superior" stuff as it wasn't about pilots per se, it was about a much larger network, 100+ widebodies over that of per-merger U, 900 orders/options, higher pre-merger compensation, etc. Those are facts. Of course, how the arbitrators WEIGH those facts, remains to be seen. "11 months" difference in DOH's are peanuts compared to West (and I assume East) proposals that have 14-18 year differences in DOH's like where the most junior West pilot with a DOH of 2005 is senoir to East pilots with 1987 DOH and LAA of 1999.
No, he didn't. He essentially said, "Don't worry son, you'll be senior someday.", as is common in the nAAtive lexicon.
07-01-2015 | 02:19 PM
#96
Banned
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
Likes: 0
Not sure where you got your data. The AAPSIC proposal shows LAA 9845 at snapshot date and combined U at 5174, so that favors LAA PMCE superiority in the wide body component.
Using your fleet numbers;
LAA = 94.7 pilots/widebody
LUS = 112.5 pilots/widebody
Of course, they could just be lying.
Using your fleet numbers;
LAA = 94.7 pilots/widebody
LUS = 112.5 pilots/widebody
Of course, they could just be lying.
07-01-2015 | 02:27 PM
#97
Banned
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
Likes: 0
Just like the use of the Nicolau is on merits and not company convenience, cuts both ways. The company attorney spelled out clearly that this is usapa's attempt to just delay things, your aasic backs them because their whole case has been torpedoed and they are hitching their wagon to usapa's delay game. All this will be very plain for Silver to see as she crafts injunction. So if the east doesn't get any traction on the en banc Silvers order can lead for the Nic. to be the in effect list at lus before this arbitration is over.
[eaglefly looks up] Heavenly father, where do they come up with this stuff ?
The proposal by the AAPSIC was formulated on a "status quo" of 3 separate lists and that has now been called into question. It would be prudent to reformulate their proposal and integration model so as to achieve the goal they are tasked with; Obtaining a fair and equitable integration with the interests of the pilots they represent protected.
I would assume the other committees (or perhaps 1) will also reformulate proposals to achieve the same goal for their pilots. You'll note ALL the proposals and lists are now gone, yes ?
I understand you've lived in this Nicolau cesspool for almost a decade and it's difficult, if not impossible to see ANYTHING else, but what's occurring doesn't necessarily make the Nic the sun everything else orbits around.
07-01-2015 | 02:31 PM
#98
Banned
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
Likes: 0
Well, you're talking to a lowly Eagle flow-through and if there is ANYONE out there that has been belittled in the past (whether real or imagined and it's been both ) by a supposed self-superiority among AA pilots, it's us. That being said, for the most part, it's not true. You'd think I'd be spring-loaded to read his post that way, but I didn't until you read it that way and upon reading it again, I still didn't see the father/son condensation you imply, but that's just me.
07-01-2015 | 02:56 PM
#99
Banned
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,240
Likes: 0
Wouldn't it be wonderful for West pilots if the AAPSIC's "whole case was torpedoed" ?
[eaglefly looks up] Heavenly father, where do they come up with this stuff ?
The proposal by the AAPSIC was formulated on a "status quo" of 3 separate lists and that has now been called into question. It would be prudent to reformulate their proposal and integration model so as to achieve the goal they are tasked with; Obtaining a fair and equitable integration with the interests of the pilots they represent protected.
I would assume the other committees (or perhaps 1) will also reformulate proposals to achieve the same goal for their pilots. You'll note ALL the proposals and lists are now gone, yes ?
I understand you've lived in this Nicolau cesspool for almost a decade and it's difficult, if not impossible to see ANYTHING else, but what's occurring doesn't necessarily make the Nic the sun everything else orbits around.
[eaglefly looks up] Heavenly father, where do they come up with this stuff ?
The proposal by the AAPSIC was formulated on a "status quo" of 3 separate lists and that has now been called into question. It would be prudent to reformulate their proposal and integration model so as to achieve the goal they are tasked with; Obtaining a fair and equitable integration with the interests of the pilots they represent protected.
I would assume the other committees (or perhaps 1) will also reformulate proposals to achieve the same goal for their pilots. You'll note ALL the proposals and lists are now gone, yes ?
I understand you've lived in this Nicolau cesspool for almost a decade and it's difficult, if not impossible to see ANYTHING else, but what's occurring doesn't necessarily make the Nic the sun everything else orbits around.
P.S. Good luck hitching your wagon to defending the east position that Nic. shouldn't apply.
Last edited by cactiboss; 07-01-2015 at 03:12 PM.
07-01-2015 | 03:29 PM
#100
Banned
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
Likes: 0
Nope, the aapsic took it upon themselves to be the "new nicolau" read their original proposal, they gave the west pilots some "credit" for the Nicolau in their proposal. I don't know what fantasy land you live in but if the west showed up with a re-ordered aa list we would be laughed out of the room. Btw you seriously think the aapsic doesn't have a proposal with the lus pilots in nicolau order ready to go? It would be inconceivable they didn't consider that possibility.
P.S. Good luck hitching your wagon to defending the east position that Nic. shouldn't apply.
P.S. Good luck hitching your wagon to defending the east position that Nic. shouldn't apply.
Just because the West now believes the Nic is the only list, doesn't mean it's being reordered if others don't recognize it as they aren't required to. They very well may, but if so, look for mitigators to offset that. I'm not "defending" anything, just stating my belief that your view of everything isn't necessarily the anchor of the end result.
BTW, how long is the party going to go ?
Sooner or later, the hangover always shows up.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
