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Old 06-10-2020, 06:01 PM
  #1551  
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How about this tibit...none of the people I know even filled out an application. They just emailed the recruiter directly and got handed interviews...this was maybe 2 weeks ago. Your mileage may vary!
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Old 06-11-2020, 12:17 AM
  #1552  
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you are basically paying for your own type rating..you do understand that, right?
Have you looked at the difference in 1-2nd year pay at UPS? Or at like every other Airline?
You are making a standard industry practice sound like this very bad thing AAWH is doing.
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Old 06-11-2020, 02:37 AM
  #1553  
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Originally Posted by TiredSoul View Post
Have you looked at the difference in 1-2nd year pay at UPS? Or at like every other Airline?
You are making a standard industry practice sound like this very bad thing AAWH is doing.
Yes, a standard practice called Pay for Training, some airlines charge you upfront and some charge you by making you work for it.
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Old 06-11-2020, 03:40 AM
  #1554  
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Originally Posted by NeverFlexTO View Post
Received this today...Thank you very much for your recent application to the 737 First Officer position at Southern Air. We have reviewed your application and we are sorry to inform you that you do not meet the minimum qualifications for this position. We invite you to continue to look for opportunities that meet your interests.

We wish you all the best in your career search.
Southern Air


My Quals
ATP/CFII/AGI
7,000TT
1,000 Turbine PIC
Types: A320/B757/B767/E170/E190/CL65
Former ACP at Regional
Former Chief LCA at Regional
Never Failed a Checkride

Just trying to figure out why I wouldnít meet min quals?
Its 1990 all over again. Airlines can pick and choose without any reason.
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Old 06-11-2020, 03:56 AM
  #1555  
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Originally Posted by The Dominican View Post
Yes, a standard practice called Pay for Training, some airlines charge you upfront and some charge you by making you work for it.
So I'd argue there's actually some pretty big differences between paying up front and eating low, first year pay. It all comes down to risk and incentives.

"Normal" practice for an airline to screen candidates based on whatever they need. Since they are eating the costs of training the airline or charter company needs to be pretty selective of their candidate. There's real money riding on whether this person is going to make it through training. Of course other factors are at play, but since your chances of making it through training are tied to the airline's cash, your knowledge and skill count for something. The airline has an incentive to select aviators at least in part for their ability to aviate. Airlines make sure their investments are secure. The people around us are safer for this.

PFT has the candidate ante up a large amount of money. The airline has much less invested in whether you make it through training or not. Now those other factors become much more important. Not only do your looks, connections, etc. matter, but your ability to pay for this training also affects whether you will or won't be selected. In this model the airline has much less incentive to select based on ability since the cost of a pilot is low. The people around us are less safe due to this.

So when we look at Atlas' model we approached a PFT-like result without having people pay up front for training. Less money was tied up in our ability to aviate than our ability to fill seats. We fell into a similar trap, only instead of selecting for looks and connections, we selected for whoever would sit down, shut-up and not make trouble. While the airline was investing money in training, the cost of our pilots was low. That meant other incentives prevailed. Now people are dead.
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Old 06-11-2020, 08:37 AM
  #1556  
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Originally Posted by TiredSoul View Post
Have you looked at the difference in 1-2nd year pay at UPS? Or at like every other Airline?
You are making a standard industry practice sound like this very bad thing AAWH is doing.
#1 I'm not complaining, i'm making people do maths. Even better i'm explaining exactly WHY atlas is used by some as a 'free' type rating program. They have a simple way to fix the problem, but their management doesn't care to...that means it's cheaper for them to just keep eating the cost of people leaving post-training every once in awhile (i'm sure better now by tons).

#2 2nd yr UPS FO pay is the same as 12th year atlas CA pay....let that sink in
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Old 06-11-2020, 10:36 AM
  #1557  
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Iím just wanting to get the 777 type and bail ATLAS. 737 type would be nice also for the SWA app.
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Old 06-11-2020, 10:52 AM
  #1558  
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2nd yr UPS FO pay is the same as 12th year atlas CA pay....let that sink in
Nobody is denying that.
Now tell me why the difference between 1st and 2nd year pay is $120k
Weíre all listening.
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Old 06-11-2020, 10:52 AM
  #1559  
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Originally Posted by Logged View Post
Iím just wanting to get the 777 type and bail ATLAS. 737 type would be nice also for the SWA app.
Like i explained before, you are better off just paying for the type out of pocket...it's the same math. If you had a job somewhere else just keep your job and buy the type...
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Old 06-11-2020, 10:53 AM
  #1560  
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Is it weird that someone who interviewed 6 weeks after me is getting a class date 6 weeks ahead of me on the same type? Surprised itís not first in first out. Still thankful for my class date and looking forward to it, but it would be nice to have it moved up sooner is all & just curious. Could it be qualifications?
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