The number I threw out there was for illustrative purposes, to make the point that they can afford to not only pay us but give us a raise without changing anything in the way they manage the $ and without bankrupting the company. As far as $150k per pilot, worthy goal but keep dreaming, ain't gonna happen, that would be more than double current average pay per person and almost 300 mil additional spending. We can squawk all we want about what we are worth, and we ARE worth a lot, but the reality is that's a big number and they won't cough that up. Moreover I won't litigate it on a social media site with you, we have a negotiating committee that will make the magic happen for us and get us the best deal possible, which I hope is on the order of increase you suggest and I hope happens before I am hired somewhere else. If it doesn't, so be it. Regardless, an industry leading deal may not be enough to fix the damage they have done anyway. We continue to lose pilots daily and for those who stay the resentment/vitriol/ill will is going to linger for a long time...

 

It's attitudes like this that keep bottom feeder pilot groups paid at bottom feeder rates while their managements and shareholders make a killing. Every day I think pilots get smarter, I read another one of these statements.

 

Nicely done, you illustrate your own point about pilot groups. No facts to refute anything, no points, no cogent argument, just a personal attack/attempted insult. You've won me over! Well done.

 

What are guys failing on?

 

AMEN BROTHER!!!

If you are a good pilot with a good attitude, you can be trained to do any type of flying. The problem is you don't get that training here.

SA has made some significant improvements and he deserves credit for that, but we have a long way to go...

 

Exactly. Not my job to manage AAWH. My job to is to fly the planes. Currently the going rate for that service is what they will have to pay me. Unreal we have so many guys worried about hurting the company and not their own career. Your math example forgets something. They can pass the costs on to customers or operate more efficiently to generate the cost of our raise. The businessmen can figure that part out.

 

Winner winner- chicken dinner.

So they pass on a price increase to the DOD, DHL, the MW, flying ( expect the Victoria secret stuff to Paris ) and Amazon, DHL, and whoever else we are sleeping with.

 

Because Atlas has done a great job of hiring a bunch of P words.
I think it's 50%, maybe more.

 

This is just plain silly. I never sided with the company and I never said they couldn't afford it. Read the whole post. A doubling of the current average salary is simply unrealistic no matter how much we stomp our feet, kick and scream or act like fools on social media. Just ain't gonna happen. You are naive to believe we will get everything that we want and they have to just figure it out. Life, negotiations and business just simply don't work that way. Is that the way you handle your personal finances? "Hey honey, buy what you want, when the bills come in I'll just figure it out..." I doubt it. So what makes you believe that's the way they will handle their finances? Moreover the "pass it on to the customer" thing sounds really good except that the current customers are all already signed to long term deals, cuz that's the business model, and certainly won't renegotiate their deals simply because the company signed a deal with us. Again I ask, would you? No you wouldn't. If you contracted for a service and the service provider came to you and asked you to renegotiate the contract you would say what about the rate and the contract we already have? What's the point of the contract? Again, the naivety befuddles me. I am not a company sympathizer, what I am is a realist and in the real world it doesn't work the way you wish it would. In the end, we will get what we negotiate, which is whatever they are willing to pay given any pressure/leverage we can exert, nothing more and nothing less.

 

Glad to hear your number was not meant as a suggestion and that was my point, it is damaging to even mention such low numbers even in in an "off the cuff" sort of way. I also agree our negotiating committee speaks for us!

But just as perspective, industry 6th year 767 Captain rates are $100-140 PER HOUR above ours, so at 62 hours just the difference would add $75-105k. Add line guarantee so that one actually gets paid for the 80 hours awarded, that adds another 18 hours at the increased total rate, there's another $54-62k. Then perhaps a lower than standard retirement contribution of 10%, that adds yet another $24-28k. All told $153-195k! I'm sure I have left out a few things, such as retro pay, incremental increase to existing 401k matching, etc., but you get the idea. That should be roughly the average as 747 Captain would be greater and FOs less. To expect any less is to expect failure of their stated plans.

And make no mistake, that IS affordable as we know who will actually be paying it. Do you not think Amazon et al knew coming into this that pilot costs would be increasing and they have planned accordingly? Or do you really think they are betting the house on "we have a contract and won't pay more"? When 1224 was negotiating with ABX in 08/09, it was DHL who DIRECTLY had to come up with $70 million extra for pension and pilot pay to get that contract done!