rmr1992

This is just plain silly. I never sided with the company and I never said they couldn't afford it. Read the whole post. A doubling of the current average salary is simply unrealistic no matter how much we stomp our feet, kick and scream or act like fools on social media. Just ain't gonna happen. You are naive to believe we will get everything that we want and they have to just figure it out. Life, negotiations and business just simply don't work that way. Is that the way you handle your personal finances? "Hey honey, buy what you want, when the bills come in I'll just figure it out..." I doubt it. So what makes you believe that's the way they will handle their finances? Moreover the "pass it on to the customer" thing sounds really good except that the current customers are all already signed to long term deals, cuz that's the business model, and certainly won't renegotiate their deals simply because the company signed a deal with us. Again I ask, would you? No you wouldn't. If you contracted for a service and the service provider came to you and asked you to renegotiate the contract you would say what about the rate and the contract we already have? What's the point of the contract? Again, the naivety befuddles me. I am not a company sympathizer, what I am is a realist and in the real world it doesn't work the way you wish it would. In the end, we will get what we negotiate, which is whatever they are willing to pay given any pressure/leverage we can exert, nothing more and nothing less.

WTFover

Glad to hear your number was not meant as a suggestion and that was my point, it is damaging to even mention such low numbers even in in an "off the cuff" sort of way. I also agree our negotiating committee speaks for us!

But just as perspective, industry 6th year 767 Captain rates are $100-140 PER HOUR above ours, so at 62 hours just the difference would add $75-105k. Add line guarantee so that one actually gets paid for the 80 hours awarded, that adds another 18 hours at the increased total rate, there's another $54-62k. Then perhaps a lower than standard retirement contribution of 10%, that adds yet another $24-28k. All told $153-195k! I'm sure I have left out a few things, such as retro pay, incremental increase to existing 401k matching, etc., but you get the idea. That should be roughly the average as 747 Captain would be greater and FOs less. To expect any less is to expect failure of their stated plans.

And make no mistake, that IS affordable as we know who will actually be paying it. Do you not think Amazon et al knew coming into this that pilot costs would be increasing and they have planned accordingly? Or do you really think they are betting the house on "we have a contract and won't pay more"? When 1224 was negotiating with ABX in 08/09, it was DHL who DIRECTLY had to come up with $70 million extra for pension and pilot pay to get that contract done!

Omnipotent

And have the ATSG carriers, Kalitta, SAI and whoever else is out there come out of the woodwork to take your flying at a lower cost.

Mr Rumbold

As I said when somebody (you?) posted this before; Info like this is meaningless without telling us WHY people failed!
We don't need names and social security numbers. Just helpful info so anyone headed there can avoid whatever pitfalls they're falling into!

SuperAerobat

+1. Challenging training is one thing... But some make it sound like the training department is working against its new hires. More info would be greatly appreciated!

Crazy Canuck

My salary: $84 x 62 hours x 12 months = $62,000

FedEx: $168 x 74 x 12 = $149,000

Same damn job. Yes we can get double, and we deserve it.


Also, I wouldn't put much stock in the guys running their mouths about training dept failures. 747 training here is tough, and yes a failure here and there happens. But it's not widespread and they are not out to get you.

Whiplash6

The training department has made major improvements over the last year. At this point, I'm starting to think it's not the training department as much as it's a result of a non-competitive contract.

captainv

The checkride is old school and basic. They train you to handle emergencies in the pattern at either JFK (747) or SEA (767).

I haven't heard of any recent uptick in busts, but typically on the 747, busts are usually the result of a pod scrape or getting slow on the 2-engine approach, followed by a stall/spin.

captainv

Agree with Whiplash, Training has gotten better as of late (747 side - 767 side hasn't been an issue). What is changing is some of the applicants and experience levels. The overwhelming majority of new hires are still either ex-mil or regional guys, but we get the occasional hire who may not have a wealth of experience, which can add to the challenge. I'm not aware of any stories where training was working against a new hire - everything i've heard has been pilots who fell short of the standard. Training has been good with extra sims/help to those who were struggling, sometimes it's just too far a leap.

minimwage4

Is there a difference between Atlas and Southern?