zerozero

I get it.

Just saying, if you're PREPARED to do that, you have nothing to fear.

Cujo665

If the job is that bad, they should leave.

abxflyr

Many of these statements are post-facto when taken in perspective. One can argue, if you are working for Omni or Kalitta (which I assume the most recent commentators are..) that ACMI life is good and better than AA and others.

I suppose you can argue that it is ...."now", but how many years (and how far behind in total wages) are you from the long term life in prison? Generally speaking when you feed the dog scraps they begin to think its a good meal. Just like saying how many days off you personally get or what your commute is....the mileage varies to the individual.

By the way, everyone forgets to mention in ACMI....you're only as good as your next Union contract; and the company, as good till their next renewal or change in customer base.

Cujo665

Any airline is only as good as its next contract. Ask the guys who’ve had bankruptcy contracts.

Again, you’re talking a different situation than the one I’ve described. If you’re under 50, even at Kalitta or Omni, going to a legacy will be a significant improvement in all areas except for short term pay and working conditions while on reserve.
If you live in Base it’s a no brainer, if you’re a commuter it adds to the mix.

I’ll restate it again. Every guys situation is different. For many, staying at their ACMI is probably their best option.

In my case, I’d much rather do 16 straight and have two weeks straight off every month... bid creatively and get a month off without ever using a single vacation day. Never have to JS. Never have to crashpad. Very decent pay. Treated well. Hotel points and airline miles for free family vacations.

It’s not for everybody, but for many it’s great.

vroll1800

Really?? A glance at airline profiles shows Omni top rate on B767 (AND B777) to be 262/hr. AA shows 284/hr for B767, 332/hr for B777. I do see that Omni has a $25/hr advantage first year pay over AA, but then AA has a 20-25/hr rate advantage on B767 over Omni for the 2nd - 4th year FO. (Although narrow body for legacy new hires is the norm, some legacy new hires have snagged a B767 slot from the start, or within a few years.

I get that you're elated to be at Omni now, and rightfully so. Yet you also demonstrate an ignorance of (or willingness to blow off) the effect that good rigs, minimum pay per day/duty period can have on ones compensation. At some airlines, working 16 days would net you 80 hours, or 25% more hours than Omni. I also get that home basing can be a "Golden" trump card. Yet to place ACMI carrier as a viable career alternative in the same breath as any of the "Top 6" approaches the height of folly. Add up the greater credit hours, superior retirement, vacation, trip trade/add/drop flexibility, and the columns just don't add up for many under the age of 50. Lastly, did your envious AA friend hit you up for a LOR to Omni ?

Cujo665

yes, really. Pull the CBA’s and compare top step 12 year 767 CA pay. Now a caveat could be that AA is the lowest paying legacy and is still operating under a bankruptcy contract. I’d fully expect them to make significant gains at their next negotiation, how ever many years that takes to happen. It is possible I misread it though, so I will get fresh CBA copies.

Rigs wouldn’t really effect us much, nobody ever flys enough to where rigs would beat guarantee. Check airmen, and some special programs guys could benefit from rigs. Having 12 reserve days and flying 4 legs on 4 other days all month isn’t really going to benefit from a rig. RSV days are all just guarantee.
But, in all fairness, even when on a 6 day layover, it is part of our 16 days and we are getting guarantee. It’s a rig of sorts by end result.

That said, it’s easy to pick up extra pay by things as simple as accepting a coach seat instead of business or first.

And I’ll say again.... everybody’s situation and needs are different. There is absolutely nothing wrong with somebody finishing their career at a place like Kalitta or Omni if it works for them. If somebody else is under 50ish they should absolutely look at the legacy job. The short term pain would be worth the long term gain. Again, to keep it in context, we’re talking 50+ year old Kalitta/Omni CA’s at or near top step. If you’re a first, second, third year FO under about 57-58, you’re better off at the legacy if you can deal with commuting and crashpads for a while.

A few of these ACMI’s have become decent jobs, that does not mean there aren’t better ones. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Grundt

AA signed a new CBA in 2015 AFTER exiting bankruptcy at the end of 2013. Furthermore, they got mid-contract pay raises in 2017. To say that their current CBA/payrates is a bankruptcy contract is a total misrepresentation of facts.

Also according to APC, 12 year 767 CA pay at Omni is $262/hr and at AA is $284/hr. AA has a higher guarantee, too. Omni's rates are going to go up eventually, but they won't exceed $284 until DOS+2 (and even then it's just barely beating it before going up to $297 at DOS+3). For the time being, AA's top rates are clearly still higher.

Stop misrepresenting the facts. I'm glad you guys have a tremendously improved CBA, but it's still not better than AA's.

Cujo665

Oh, it’s definately not better than any legacy... unless you’re already in the left seat at a Kalitta or Omni type place and over age 50ish.

It also depends on how much value is placed on home basing vs jumpseating to crashpads, or jumpseating on a day off for uncomutable trips... and how much value is placed on having two weeks off straight every month...

Different folks will have different needs and priorities. A legacy gig isn’t always the best choice by default. A lot goes into it.

nitefr8dog

You compared pay vs pay and your wrong....its ok you can say it

4runner

You’re*. I’m “that guy”.