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Old 10-16-2018, 01:08 PM   #51  
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Joined APC: Oct 2012
Position: B744 CA
Posts: 331
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Industry Strnd View Post
Not an error. $286 is the final rate of the cba, not the rate right now! Go to the cba and use the rate now and you will see the chart is correct.
ok
not a problem if thats what you mean to portray - to me it's more meaningful to show all the groups numbers with the best that their current cba's have to offer - just the way I feel - you can make argument either way

however you do use the language below for salary computations
Maximum
Longevity CA
and FO Base
Annual Salary

and very similar language for max pay
Max Captain
Hourly Rate
in CBA

again if thats what you want fine its your deal
and I get that there is limited space - but it could be a little clearer

these are just constructive criticisms
please take it that way
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Old 10-16-2018, 02:15 PM   #52  
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Originally Posted by Industry Strnd View Post
So I just crossed checked UPS CBA the rigs list in the cba are what is depicted in the chart, the Perdiem listed in Article 12 is correct in the chart. And the guarantee is corrected in the chart for 12 bid periods. Apears the only mistake is the International override. Which appears to be Fedex.

After mutiple checks the ACMI rates are correct and way short of where they should be. And the retirement it's short too $
4 week guarantee at UPS is 75 hours... not sure how one can conclude that a 12 month equivalent would be less than that.

75 x 13 = 975
975/12 = 81.25

Not sure about the rest but on that glaring point Boiler is correct... as usual.
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Old 10-16-2018, 02:33 PM   #53  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Industry Strnd View Post
So I just crossed checked UPS CBA the rigs list in the cba are what is depicted in the chart, the Perdiem listed in Article 12 is correct in the chart. And the guarantee is corrected in the chart for 12 bid periods. Apears the only mistake is the International override.
The UPS EDW duty rig is 1.5:1, which is not listed on your chart. 12.F.(4)

For Perdiem, you are stopping at the 12.G.(2) charts, without regard for the 12.G.(4) adjustments. Can't necessarily fault you for that as you aren't a UPS pilot, but 2017 rates are on the APC profile for UPS and here are the 2018 rates:

Domestic: $2.60
Europe: $3.45
PacRim: $3.65
International: $3.35

BrownDoubles has addressed the guarantee discrepancy (12.D.1).
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Old 10-16-2018, 02:38 PM   #54  
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Originally Posted by Industry Strnd View Post
https://cargofacts.com/atsg-adds-777-platform-through-omni-air-acquisition/

Appears onmi will be a cargo co! Also hard to say the contracts are wrong. So far don't see any contract paragraphs cited that are wrong. I wonder why? And I wonder why people seem to be so angry over data that is being put out to help pilots decide the best place to work and maybe pressure their union to raise the bar. Must be management worried pilots might actually work together!
Anger?

Defensive much?

For someone who seeks corrections you keep belittling those who identify the problems, name calling, and making accusations.
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Old 10-16-2018, 05:09 PM   #55  
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Why was this thread even made a sticky?

Last edited by No Land 3; 10-16-2018 at 05:21 PM.
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Old 10-17-2018, 05:22 AM   #56  
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Joined APC: Jul 2018
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Originally Posted by Industry Strnd View Post
Must be management worried pilots might actually work together!
Ah, there it is again - the "management troll" defense.

Find a better argument.
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Old 10-18-2018, 07:05 AM   #57  
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To the OP:

I think we all want to use your chart. You've put together lots of data and done a good job organizing it into a readable and usable product.

What I don't understand is your reluctance (and petulance) to adjust incorrect figures. The facts you're asking for are found on this website - look at the airline profiles.

Your responsibility as the creator is to become an expert in knowing where to find the data for each space on the chart. In fact, when I've made similar charts I would note in each chart space where I found the source data. Makes it easy to verify when questions present themselves. I suspect some of your errors are in transposing the data from your collection spot to the chart. Proofread then publish.

Last - Please take criticism in the way it was meant, just to help you get it right. Why would managers want to confuse people on guarantee and pay? It's simply looked up on APC and in each contract. It's easier to obscure the finer points.

Respect
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Old 10-18-2018, 01:14 PM   #58  
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Originally Posted by boxguy View Post
To the OP:

I think we all want to use your chart. You've put together lots of data and done a good job organizing it into a readable and usable product.

What I don't understand is your reluctance (and petulance) to adjust incorrect figures. The facts you're asking for are found on this website - look at the airline profiles.

Your responsibility as the creator is to become an expert in knowing where to find the data for each space on the chart. In fact, when I've made similar charts I would note in each chart space where I found the source data. Makes it easy to verify when questions present themselves. I suspect some of your errors are in transposing the data from your collection spot to the chart. Proofread then publish.

Last - Please take criticism in the way it was meant, just to help you get it right. Why would managers want to confuse people on guarantee and pay? It's simply looked up on APC and in each contract. It's easier to obscure the finer points.

Respect
I think they guys who made it are on a 17 day trip to Hong Kong and are looking it over to make changes when they get time to. Looks like the fedex and ups column got interchanged for in a few boxes.
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Old 10-21-2018, 06:13 AM   #59  
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Originally Posted by Industry Strnd View Post
Not an error. $286 is the final rate of the cba, not the rate right now! Go to the cba and use the rate now and you will see the chart is correct.
Guarantee at Omni is wrong for one. There are two.

General - 64 Hrs
Special Programs - 80 Hrs

1/3rd of the fleet is dedicated to special programs. New Hires are able to bid and get it, so it isn't a senior guys only thing. If you want to fly a lot bid the program. If you want to get paid for 64 while flying 25-40 bid general.

If you want to do scheduled airline style flying, bid Vegas.

Lots and lots of soft money hidden everywhere that raises guarantee also without actually flying anything extra.
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Old 10-21-2018, 06:16 AM   #60  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boxguy View Post
To the OP:

I think we all want to use your chart. You've put together lots of data and done a good job organizing it into a readable and usable product.

What I don't understand is your reluctance (and petulance) to adjust incorrect figures. The facts you're asking for are found on this website - look at the airline profiles.

Your responsibility as the creator is to become an expert in knowing where to find the data for each space on the chart. In fact, when I've made similar charts I would note in each chart space where I found the source data. Makes it easy to verify when questions present themselves. I suspect some of your errors are in transposing the data from your collection spot to the chart. Proofread then publish.

Last - Please take criticism in the way it was meant, just to help you get it right. Why would managers want to confuse people on guarantee and pay? It's simply looked up on APC and in each contract. It's easier to obscure the finer points.

Respect
I agree. The idea is excellent. The work so far on organizing and presenting has been excellent. Now it's time to clean up the fine details so that it becomes the go to source for comparison. Great start, keep improving it.
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