I will only address the military part. 22+ years, Still in the Navy reserves. UPS for 10. You will win a huge lawsuit if you have a trouble with the UPS chief pilot office . I have been through this muck before as many have. Short end. You need to tell them that you will have a chat with the ESGR folks at your unit. (even if not there, I will hook you up with who you need to talk to, I will talk with you as well) I am on the mentoring group and help on the mil stuff. In the end, it is sad there attitude, but we all get over it <VBG>

 

You can look up the pay rates on this site. Second year pay does get a lot better. However, an O-4 pilot in the USAF makes considerably more than a 5 year UPS FO. UPS can afford to pay its pilots better than the US government!!

 

AGAIN, I will repeat! UPS, and UPS alone is responsible for the ABYSMAL first year pay. IT IS CRIMINAL! The IPA DOES NOT nogotiate probationary pay!


A LINE SLUG!

 

"I'm a firm believer in corporate culture. Look at SWA and how they get so much production from its pilots. Why can't Brown pay us well, give us decent facilities, and motivate us to perform"

Great question and one I've always wondered about. I think the answer is they are a trucking company and have been quite successful as such. They haven't yet figured out how treating pilots well could put more money in their pockets. Southwest figured it out a long time ago. Me...I've got 16 years to go and have adapted to the UPS style. They won't change. Take it as it is or leave it. I've been here since 90 and can't go anywhere. Wouldn't want to the way things turned out, other than maybe Fedex.

Someone said if you have reservations about 100 percent support of the IPA, you should go. I agree with that. I'm ready to walk away for ever should I be asked to. Been making the plan for years. It's no big thing....

 

I'm not attacking you on this one, I guess I don't understand how your CB-agreement works. Was first year pay not included in the negoitiations with the rest of your contract? Why would IPA not stand up and demand better pay for your 1st year guys? Who negoitiates for first year pay if not the IPA, or is a probationary pilot not part of the CB?

 

Stop b@tching and stay put. Your pay is gonna increase over the next couple of years. My buddy works there on 75/76 and made 26k too. Now he sits atop the co-pilots about 140k per year and hardly ever works.

Tight'n your belt for a couple of years and things will work out.

 

Don't get emotionally wrapped up in this....it's just bussiness. They don't even know your name. It's a negotiation between a collective BARGAINING unit (IPA) and a company (UPS). The key word is bargaining. If pilots got everything we wanted, we'd be paid 500k to stay at home. If the company got all that it wanted, you'd work for free and block 1000hrs/yr. It's just business.
As far as first year pay, yes it's terrible and should be raised. To blame IPA for selling out the new guys to 'fatten the captains wallet' is a bit short sighted. When at the NEGOTIATING table each side has a finite amount of chips. Would you want to use your last chip on improving first year pay that affects less than 400 pilots for one year or use that chip on improving the top end that affects thousands of pilots. Remember, your in your first year for one year and a 12 year Capt for many.
Whatever you decide, toss out the emotion and look at where you will be in 5 and 10 years down the road. Remember what your pay was as a new 2nd Lt? Thanks for your service to our country. I'm sorry you weren't able to get into the NAYY.
Best wishes to the IPA in your negotiations.

SWAcapt USNR(ret)

 

This guy is nuts! The pay scale was not a secret when you were hired. I think the 26K first year salary is a good thing. Its about paying your dues and thats life. Did you ever switch schools as a kid, were you ever the new guy on a sports team? It sounds like you were in the millitary so you can understand the idea of moving up in the ranks. This is the way life is and just because you were an airforce pilot or whatever doesn't mean everything should be an easy step forward. Its a step back then two steps forward.

Having a progressive pay scale is motivational, it makes you think you are going somewhere when you are really stuck at the same job. Try taking the civilian way to the airlines. I paid cash for my private, got a student load for my commercial, instrument and instructor rating. Flew the pattern 6-8 hours a day to pay for my other ratings. I did this for 2400hrs and finished my degree before moving to charter, all the while living with a roommate. Now I'm trying to figure out how I could land my dream job-the one you are about to throw away!

All I can tell you is that there are tons of guys that would kill for a ups job. Getting the low salary is kind of the hazing process of being the new kid on the team everyone wants to be on.

 

Well, I made my decision today. I actually had a nice meeting with my UPS and FedEx sponsors. Both are senior Capts and have a lot of insight. They both think that I should stay where I am. After much debate with my wife we have decided on Brown.

So 4th and Goal, you're going to have to put up with me for a very long time. I really am not a selfish jerk, I just had to stir the pot a little to see what came up.

From what I gather the IPA is extremely unified. UPS talks a great game because they are so good at union negotiations. There is no management team in the country as good at dealing with unions than UPS. However, the IPA is full of 1988 hires who have busted their rumps for an entire career to make this a billion dollar a year company. It will probably even come to a strike, but it will only last 10 minutes. It's just business and I understand that a lot better now.

 

I think you made a good decision, ToStay. If our postal contract goes away, and these contracts come and go like the wind, then so does much of our flying. The job security at UPS is unmatched.

I think you all will have a great contract in the bag in the next few months, and by then you'll be off of food stamps. So what if you make $5 less than your friend at FedEx? He's also based in Anchorage. Hello, lifestyle??

Plus, seniority is everything anyways, isn't it? And not having to jump ship again is surely nice.

Tailwinds!!