if they put an excess of "1" for HKG Capt, you will then be bidding to relieve excess and I would think that you might be on the hook for HKG Capt!

 

OK so I am wrong. Then someone explain to me how and excess with the -1 at each base is different than if they did not have the -1 excess at each base.

I'm not being contentious here, I really don't see the difference why they had the -1 excess in the last bid if everyone can go wherever they want with any bid. Based on seniority of course.

 

The "1" in each seat allows everyone with a "1" in their seat to use their seniority to move to whichever seat that their seniority will hold, flushing the guys at the bottom seniority in each seat down.

 

OK so after reading through the contract again, I think I understand it. So if the company excesses out of any seat, everyone should bid ANC. That way the company has to buy all the houses and make the moves.

Now if they don't put the "1" excess in ANC no one in ANC would be excessed. Thus, this would result in transferring whatever the over-manned aircraft position is, to an over-manned position in ANC. Somehow I don't think they would do this.

The other option is to put the "1" excess at both MEM and ANC. I don't think they will do this either since we've already seen the outcome of that.

There must be something I'm missing, so I think I'll just stay out of this conversation. Later.

 

There is a difference between a bid to excess and being excessed.
If my seat is one of those identified, then I can bid to relieve that excess by putting those choices above my current seat position.

If I'm not awarded one of those, and the company isn't required to, and I am excessed to a seat which pays less than my seniority entitled me to hold then POP is triggered, and the HKG Capt seniority level is pretty damn junior, 27C is middle of the road and is another potential for folks to consider,
HKG FO is wicked junior, but, if you bid it----definitely going to go

 

The difference is this -- HKG CAPT is fully manned at this time. HKG FO is not fully manned.

If you put HKG FO as an option, you might be on your way via the Orient Express! HKG CAPT is full, an excess anywhere in the system cannot create an excess in HKG. If seniority permits, HKG POP is required. If more vacancies are created down the road, then it will be awarded. I can deal with that, but I won't live there. The current LOA is a POS. I voted against it.

I think the discussion here is critical for everyone facing an excess, regardless of current crew position. I'm not here for the "joy of flying" or my "sentimental affection" for FedEx. I'm here to work for compensation comensurate with my skills, seniority, and the contract provisions within the CBA.

With that said, I will seek to maximize my compensation for my family based on the choices dictated to me by the company's decisons to pursue a specific course of action. This does not mean I will undermine my fellow pilots by "hosing another pilot" by my choices.

Essentially, if it is appropriate and legal to have a standing bid that tilts the bar in my favor, then I will make it happen.

This whole evolution was created by the mismanagement of PC and his minions with assistance from a misguided MEC. After reviewing all of the financial implications of an excess bid, future aircraft deliveries, etc. -- it is pretty clear to me that it is jacked up to the max!

If PC continues the pursuit of an excess and potential furlough, I doubt he could continue in his capacity as VP Flt Ops. If he does, then he is truly made of TEFLON!

 

Correct me if I am wrong. The way I read it is if I am excessed then I can go anywhere that there is someone holding a seat junior too me or the other way around. Therefore, an excess of 1 in MEM or ANC or anywhere else will topple the whole tea cart. Am I wrong? That is what happened last time when the canxed the bid.

 

That is correct accept you can not create an excess at an FDA.

 

And, if the company elects to place you in a seat other than the one you could have held at the FDA....and it pays less than the FDA seat, you receive passover pay

 

Yes, and the net change in those seats with a "-1" will be a "negative 1" in the end.

Total # Currently in Seat -1 = (Total # Current in Seat + # Bidding/Flushed Into the Seat) - (# Voluntarily Bidding to Leave the Seat + # Forced Excessed from the Seat)

This is what people are calling the "bump and flush".

The "Bump" is guys being bumped down to another seat (i.e. Widebody to Narrowbody or MEM to ANC)....and the "flush" is those at the very bottom getting "flushed" down further.

A big Bump and Flush Bid, like 08-03, is very efficient in realigning seniority in one fell swoop; however, the associated training cycles and move packages it generates were proven to be huge.

My guess is this Excess Bid will be smaller and more controlled. In fact, it could consist of many smaller iterations (i.e. numerous excess bids) --- not just one big "bump and flush".

Mgt has gone on record stating the MEM Bus is where we are currently overmanned the most (...then MEM MD-11) and that all of the other domiciles and acft are properly manned, except HKG FO.

I think it is important to note there are also slightly less than 40 727 FOs who are junior to about 90 727 SOs, which generates POP for those 90 SOs.

Given they are looking at every nickel, I think realigning this part of the 727 manning will be another objective of the upcoming Feb/Mar Excess bid (...and this could be done without tipping over the ANC FO applecart)

My current guess is ANC won't have a "-1" posted, but the 777 will.

Ultimately, a "-1" posted with the 777 may have little affect on the Capt seats since it went relatively senior, but would easily affect the much more junior FO seats. It won't cost the company $$ to "mess around" with this manning, since very few folks have gone to training and won't for another 4-5 months.

(What will the typical MEM Airbus/MD-11 Capt or FO being faced with an excess do? Bid MD-11 to ANC first....or 777 to MEM??? In the last bid they didn't have another MEM based widebody option --- now they do. If they all flock to ANC the bid could be cancelled again or a "-1" placed in ANC too.)

I think the company would like to avoid a "-1" on the 757 and will allow that jet to grow, because that training letter runs out in Nov anyway --- and putting guys bumped down from widebody slots to narrowbody slots into the 757 (vs the 727) makes long-term "training-sense" anyway. (If we weren't faced with our current problems, wouldn't the 727 be facing another excess bid in the next few years anyway?)

Generally speaking I think the company will take a piecemeal, iterative approach to the realignment --- not try to fix it all in one big bid.

This of course is all conjecture on my part---- no inside knowledge at all.

...though, I have logged alot of nights in Holiday Inns the past year.