As mentioned above, new upcoming rest rule changes might help soften the blow...

 

Well, I don't know... With those "improved" rest rules more of the over 60 dudes might decide to hang on a while longer... Keedin' folks... well, kinda

 

I'd be interested in language that would seriously cap the flying the managers can do and limiting future hiring of managers. As for integration into the IPA seniority list, as a bottom 300 guy, I will vote a big fat NO! (unless it is a staple job) Been takin it in the shorts seniority wise since I have arrived here.

 

Folks...

Rather than go into the doh and integration issue, I would be happy with a permanent freeze on hiring managers if we give up the efforts to get them on our list. If you talk to some of these clowns, they don't want to be line guys (like Dirty Harry's "good men" they know their limitations) and I would rather see them wither on the vine and we accrete their jobs one by one as they retire or pass on to greener pastures. This way we would accumulate the checking and training jobs they currently perform while continuing to allow them to harass crew members for sick calls and being one minute late blocking out.

If we have to get them on our list, I would push for doh into management, not ups. If they were hired as a manager, fine; but if they were line guys and drank the brown koolaid, THAT is their effective doh.

JMO

Pilot7576

 

If that's the case, I stand corrected. I'd still be surprised to see the bottom 200-300 guys vote for it this time, unless the 'fences' you speak of are pretty significant. I'd personally be more inclined to view the whole thing more favorably as part of contract negotiations in a few years (integrating some or all of Pilot7576's points above). Side letters make me nervous.

 

No one is giving you up. Took a 75K paycut being displaced from left to right (disclaimer: I could have held left until till Jan 2010) if I wanted to bounce domiciles, but after the next round, no one will be a Capt any longer in my class. All of us will have gone from left to right. Then talked the better half into 80K in VLOA and sick bank returns, etc. That was a real interesting discussion. Point is, alot of folks gave, would have been cheaper for me to support a furlough fund, but believed better to support the MOU route that the EB/UPS chose to keep everyone on the property.
The margins for the volunteers are where I expected. Sorry folks gave more than they could manage though, especially the junior 300.
Supervisors. Yes, they indeed harm your career. Blame the IPA for doing a poor job of explaining the airline within the airline to you. It harms me too. They are very effective, they fly FAR's only. They have no contract to protect them. They are super reserves (the real ones actually,since absolutely no contractual limit on MEF) Scheduling can manage MEF all day long. Very easy to accomplish. Almost to a person, they are Captains and UPS sees no need for extra IPA Captains/F/O's when they have a ready force of Captains who can sit in either seat, fly with no limitation, and be readily managed to avoid contractual flying limits. Example: Before the 3 seaters were retired, they had Supervisor Captains qualified in all three seats. Know how effective it is to be able to plug and play 3 jobs for the real reserve managed and maniplulated MEF with one person instead of three IPA crewmembers? It was brilliant. If they doesn't sink in, then one is looking in too close and needs to look farther afield at their career. The airline within an airline serves UPS to not grow the IPA to cover their business needs. Supervisors will need fences to blend them in the IPA after we have the jobs. Protects both parties, much like DAL/NWA accomplished. It won't effect your F/O pay, or what seat you sit in (fences) and in long term, opens up the Captain positions since UPS will need to use IPA for the flexibility that was exclusively the "other airlines pilots" job.

 

Exactly! We need to keep the 400 very junior to mitigate... Why do you think UPS delayed the bid and then offered move packages with a 3 year? To lure the more senior...?

 

I'm curious is anyone knows how many hours the average manager flies per year?

I think the average IPA pilot flies about 400 or so.

Do the managers fly more or less?

 

Good question, but don't get myopic. IPA has crews that sit Hot all year long, guess what, they don't log that many hours, but they log alot of 'alert 30' time. Supes are like that, when I was hired, UPS carried alot more reserves to manage the contingency end of the business needs. Way much less since they have figured out the other airline takes care of that requirement with fewer non union pilots. Brilliant actually. Kudos to UPS for taking advantage of our reticence in the IPA.

 

Try sitting 90% in the back of the boeing at Fedex in Jan 2007 as a new hire; and now, almost 3 years later sitting at 85% in the back of the boeing in Aug 2009. With no horizon in sight for a flying seat. Oh yeah, and commuting for 6 hours to get to Memphis.

Never dreamed it would be this "great", but at least i have not been put on the street yet. Thank goodness for the reserves.