Originally Posted by SaltyDog

No one is giving you up. Took a 75K paycut being displaced from left to right (disclaimer: I could have held left until till Jan 2010) if I wanted to bounce domiciles, but after the next round, no one will be a Capt any longer in my class. All of us will have gone from left to right. Then talked the better half into 80K in VLOA and sick bank returns, etc. That was a real interesting discussion. Point is, alot of folks gave, would have been cheaper for me to support a furlough fund, but believed better to support the MOU route that the EB/UPS chose to keep everyone on the property.
The margins for the volunteers are where I expected. Sorry folks gave more than they could manage though, especially the junior 300.
Supervisors. Yes, they indeed harm your career. Blame the IPA for doing a poor job of explaining the airline within the airline to you. It harms me too. They are very effective, they fly FAR's only. They have no contract to protect them. They are super reserves (the real ones actually,since absolutely no contractual limit on MEF) Scheduling can manage MEF all day long. Very easy to accomplish. Almost to a person, they are Captains and UPS sees no need for extra IPA Captains/F/O's when they have a ready force of Captains who can sit in either seat, fly with no limitation, and be readily managed to avoid contractual flying limits. Example: Before the 3 seaters were retired, they had Supervisor Captains qualified in all three seats. Know how effective it is to be able to plug and play 3 jobs for the real reserve managed and maniplulated MEF with one person instead of three IPA crewmembers? It was brilliant. If they doesn't sink in, then one is looking in too close and needs to look farther afield at their career. The airline within an airline serves UPS to not grow the IPA to cover their business needs. Supervisors will need fences to blend them in the IPA after we have the jobs. Protects both parties, much like DAL/NWA accomplished. It won't effect your F/O pay, or what seat you sit in (fences) and in long term, opens up the Captain positions since UPS will need to use IPA for the flexibility that was exclusively the "other airlines pilots" job.

Originally Posted by Pilot7576

Folks...

Rather than go into the doh and integration issue, I would be happy with a permanent freeze on hiring managers if we give up the efforts to get them on our list. If you talk to some of these clowns, they don't want to be line guys (like Dirty Harry's "good men" they know their limitations) and I would rather see them wither on the vine and we accrete their jobs one by one as they retire or pass on to greener pastures. This way we would accumulate the checking and training jobs they currently perform while continuing to allow them to harass crew members for sick calls and being one minute late blocking out.

If we have to get them on our list, I would push for doh into management, not ups. If they were hired as a manager, fine; but if they were line guys and drank the brown koolaid, THAT is their effective doh.

JMO

Pilot7576

Originally Posted by Precontact

We want the flying, it's up to UPS to decide what to do with the supervisors. The IPA isn't going to staple them to the bottom of the list. It's going to be DOH as much as it hurts. But perhaps we could build in fences or something like that to ease the transition. Many of them are as junior as we are.

Originally Posted by notadog

The flying is already ours. It's always been ours. Read Article I of the Agreement. Start here:

Article 1, C. (2):

It is agreed that all present and future domestic flying on
aircraft with a payload weight of more than 12,899 lbs. [19,000
lbs. for international flights] including but not limited to, revenue
flying, ferry flights, charters, training flights, test flights, or other
utilization of Company owned or leased aircraft in and for the
service of the Company, or any affiliate of the Company, shall
be performed by crewmembers on the United Parcel Service
Crewmember Seniority List in accordance with the terms and
conditions of this Agreement or any other applicable agreement
between the Company and the Association, except as
otherwise provided in this Agreement.

Then, give the IPA a call and ask the following question:

"Over the last 12 months, how many flight segments did management fly that would otherwise have been flown by an IPA member that wasn't flown by displacement, for proficiency, or MEF? " (You DO realize that the Agreement provides for and permits management flying, right? )

See what they say.

The fact is that we have a clear Scope agreement that, if ENFORCED, would take care of the "problem". (If such problem really exists...)

The fact is that the union does not get to dictate to the company as to their management hiring practices, or their management structure. The IPA's job is to enforce our agreement, not play politics.

This is about politics, folks. You are being played.

Our Scope is clear. If management is flying trips that is not permitted under our Agreement, and if by doing so IPA members are harmed, then it should be enforced. By not enforcing Scope than we are stipulating that there isn't an issue with regard to management flying trips that should be flown by IPA members.

If managers want to organize, it is up to them to do so. They are free to petition the NMB for certification. They don't need our help.

Think long and hard before giving up seniority. You may regret it someday.

Originally Posted by UPSMISTAKE

Would I rather have this job than no flying job? There are plenty of other ways to make a living out there and I would easily be able to make it work other ways.

Originally Posted by Buck92

There is no way those guys will go for it if they are stapled.....we'll have to give them DOH.

Originally Posted by notadog

The flying is already ours. It's always been ours. Read Article I of the Agreement. Start here:

Article 1, C. (2):

Originally Posted by UPSMISTAKE

Does anybody else regret coming over here to UPS? I do.

So far my career with UPS has been one let down after another. From about a week after getting done with IOE this place has really gone downhill for me and I honestly regret leaving my old airline for this place. The biggest let down is that I could be working for Southwest living in base and not having to commute. And even if I did have to commute with them, at least me life wouldn't be filled with so many unknowns.

Now it seems that I am going to get displaced to Anchorage. My 2nd displacement already.

I just moved to Louisville (bought a house too) and I cannot believe that I am going to have to make that commute to Anchorage. I hear horror stories and I am not looking forward to being away from my kids for so long.

And moving to Alaska? Yeah, I don't think that is going to happen. Nothing against anyone who lives there, but why would anyone move there unless you were raised there and had family there? Plus, I just bought a house in KY!!

AK is cold, the crime is bad, the winters are dark and long and it is expensive! I cannot see one single reason to move there! My wife will hate it with having young kids that won't know their grandparents and other family!

Ugh, I am really miserable with this place. I dread getting the news that I'm off to ANC!!!

Flame away, and don't take it the wrong way. I am very happy with how the IPA has treated us, but I just am not happy with my decision to come here. It is wrecking me and my family.

Coming to UPS has been a huge mistake in my life.