Agreed. Those of us (bottom 300) who gave the most toward the MOU will again be giving up for the good of the IPA. Unless former IPA'ers, now management get stapled to the bottom, no vote from me!

 

We want the flying, it's up to UPS to decide what to do with the supervisors. The IPA isn't going to staple them to the bottom of the list. It's going to be DOH as much as it hurts. But perhaps we could build in fences or something like that to ease the transition. Many of them are as junior as we are.

 

I'm for DOH as long as that's the date they're hired to be IPA pilots (i.e. the date they come to or come back to the union). As far as I'm concerned, taking them from their supervisor position to a line pilot position is no different than taking them from an office job in Atlanta or a flying job at United wrt DOH. Is there any precident for a box-handler or package car driver getting hired as a line guy? Did they keep their original UPS hire date (serious question)?

Another thing to consider: the last time this was put to a vote (and failed), the bottom 200 guys or so were inelgible to vote because they were on probation. I would think you can add another 200 'no' votes next time.

 

Yeah and SDF is such a paradise, I would rather live in ANC then there but I guess thats just my opinion.

 

[QUOTE=Buck92;648602]There is no way those guys will go for it if they are stapled.....we'll have to give them DOH.

I agree with the person that said you have to look at the big picture. If this is voted down, it will only hurt us in the long run. IMO

 

Well, actually if they do it by the date of hire some of the manglers will become part of the 300...

I disagree with both of you by the way but that’s ok because I think that no matter what happens they'll end up setting up some kind of fences for a looong time to come... Remember that the majority of IPAers would have to vote yes BUT also the majority of the managers would need to request representation which might or might not happen...

In the long run (5+ years down the road) integration would be a huge plus for IPA...

Heck if they could come up with a permanent hiring freeze for them that alone would be a huge improvement down the line as far as pilot hiring…


Well, in the next 2 to 3 years I agree with you however down the road I definitely think they'd hire more pilots than they'd have to hire if the current “airline within airline” situation continued...

As far as stapling - I think there's some kind of new law out there nowadays specifically forbidding stapling-type mergers? Someone please correct me if I'm wrong?

They'd probably come up with a "quid pro quo" (something for something) agreement or the managers would never vote to join the union...

See your point here...

I disagree because I think they'd fence us in for several years... As of right now every one of the managers whether hired 10 years ago or 2 years ago is "senior" to all of us!

 

I know we need the positions, but at the same time, as of now, after being lucky enough to get hired here at UPS (despite it all I still feel lucky), dealing with probation pay and then an ANC displacement a year ago, choosing not to go to management when the paperwork was handed out to us as newhires a few years ago, and now working RDG lines while paying off accumulated debt from the previous furlough, I don't have any warm and fuzzies rewarding those that chose to go to management instead of sticking it out as a line-guy with union protection and then me sacraficing my job for them if we bring them over and the bottom 300 get furloughed. If they want date of hire with a 40 year fence, I may change my mind

The other thing that may come into play is the new possible duty limits the FAA may try to impose. It is only a rumor at this point, but I was told by some friends over at AA that they may need to increase their pilot ranks by 5% if they go to a 12 hour duty day. I know their flying schedules etc aren't the same as ours so I don't know if it would cause us to have to hire/not furlough or not...

We all made our choices over the span of our careers, making the best decisions we could at the time. As much as I have fallen into the trap of doing the same thing myself (saying woe is me), in the big picture it's wasted energy to regret the past, instead focus that energy on family and how you can improve your future. ANC is a shock to the system but you are still much better off than 90% of the other people in this profession. Not sure if you have been furloughed before (I have), but if not consider yourself very lucky, ANC is a pain in the butt bump in the road, but it could (hope it doesn't) always be much worse. Hang in there, and hopefully it will get better.

 

[QUOTE=Freightpuppy;648636]Correct. There's nothing to stop UPS from hiring 1000 more of these guys by between now and the next contract. It needs to be stopped. I'd love to get the flying only but don't think it's realistic. The era of 'super reserve' needs to end. A new manager hired tomorrow is already senior to all but his fellow managers.

 

Well, I know they keep their employee number but that's about it... This is different as they're hired as pilots and are qualified as such... There's no way we could claim that this is a different department and therefore they need to start all over again... Would be nice but unrealistic...

How can you say it failed when some 70% voted FOR it? It failed the "super duper" majority or whatever the union wanted at the time (wasn't it 80% they wanted?)... However, the vote passed OVERWHELMINGLY...

 

Bingo! Someone sees the light...

This is a real threat folks; this is what we are really fighting for or rather against...