What Do You Think About Training Date Swaps?
10-04-2009, 07:59 AM
#41
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: Retired
Posts: 3,717
Originally Posted by AFW_MD11
self-righteous posts like yours don't help either.
when it benefits the senior guys they're just "working within the seniority system"
when a junior guy (Pilot A) works a good deal for himself trading dates "within the system"......the senior guys all the sudden want to change the system to make it "more fair for everyone" and "promote unity" - and if the junior guy doesn't want it to change......he's being selfish??
but it's NOT selfish to "work within the seniority system" and fly 150 CH months by bidding/protecting massive carryover while the more junior guys who can't hold carryover get squat?
don't kid yourself - the "seniority system" is DESIGNED around selfishness - and does NOTHING to encourage "unity" - airline managements LOVE the seniority system because it's divisive by it's very nature.
gimme a break
I say stop negotiating side deals with the company and live with the current "deal" (contract) until it's fixed with a new contract.
especially stop negotiating anything with the company as long as they continue to illegally invoke 4.A.2.b. and until they pay back all the money they've stolen from us over that.
when it benefits the senior guys they're just "working within the seniority system"
when a junior guy (Pilot A) works a good deal for himself trading dates "within the system"......the senior guys all the sudden want to change the system to make it "more fair for everyone" and "promote unity" - and if the junior guy doesn't want it to change......he's being selfish??
but it's NOT selfish to "work within the seniority system" and fly 150 CH months by bidding/protecting massive carryover while the more junior guys who can't hold carryover get squat?
don't kid yourself - the "seniority system" is DESIGNED around selfishness - and does NOTHING to encourage "unity" - airline managements LOVE the seniority system because it's divisive by it's very nature.
gimme a break
I say stop negotiating side deals with the company and live with the current "deal" (contract) until it's fixed with a new contract.
especially stop negotiating anything with the company as long as they continue to illegally invoke 4.A.2.b. and until they pay back all the money they've stolen from us over that.
JJ
10-04-2009, 08:11 AM
#42
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: 767 FO
Posts: 8,047
Not to get to convuluted JJ. But you replied to Lucky7's post. Lucky7's post was in response to a post where an infrequent poster on here might have inadvertently implied he was a primary example of what is wrong with unity in the FDX MEC. I would have been offended if I was in his shoes.
That is where the selfish comment came in. But I am just glad ALPA has allowed us all to read nuance into the situation by remaining mum.
That is where the selfish comment came in. But I am just glad ALPA has allowed us all to read nuance into the situation by remaining mum.
10-04-2009, 12:26 PM
#44
Proponent of Hysteria
Joined APC: Mar 2005
Position: 3B
Posts: 1,052
I don't think we should mess with the system and I definitely don't think an individual should be able to negotiate back door deals with management to go outside of the contract. Live within the contract or get it changed legitimately.
The unintended consequences of changing the passover provisions in the contract could be huge, and in the end would result in a net loss for the membership.
I also think that if you block somebody's trade simply because you aren't getting their good deal you are a d-bag.
This post would not be complete without the obligatory shout out to our union "leadership" and their part in the age change debacle. Thanks again.
The unintended consequences of changing the passover provisions in the contract could be huge, and in the end would result in a net loss for the membership.
I also think that if you block somebody's trade simply because you aren't getting their good deal you are a d-bag.
This post would not be complete without the obligatory shout out to our union "leadership" and their part in the age change debacle. Thanks again.
10-04-2009, 06:09 PM
#45
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,336
Originally Posted by FXDX
This post would not be complete without the obligatory shout out to our union "leadership" and their part in the age change debacle. Thanks again.
10-07-2009, 09:30 AM
#46
On Reserve
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Posts: 18
Here is the email I received today.
"Crew Staffing cannot approve your training
swap request, per PC, no swaps will
be approved for any pilot, excessed to a lower
seat, who is trying to move to a later training start
date."
Wonder what is up now?
"Crew Staffing cannot approve your training
swap request, per PC, no swaps will
be approved for any pilot, excessed to a lower
seat, who is trying to move to a later training start
date."
Wonder what is up now?
10-07-2009, 09:33 AM
#47
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,931
It's all about the $$
Swapping dates during excess might actually cost the company something, POP waiver or not.
POP waivers were meant to protect the company during swaps after a vacancy bid.
Swapping dates during excess might actually cost the company something, POP waiver or not.
POP waivers were meant to protect the company during swaps after a vacancy bid.
Last edited by Gunter; 10-07-2009 at 10:04 AM.
10-07-2009, 10:28 AM
#48
Line Holder
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: Asleep in the Crew Bunk
Posts: 37
It is NOT the most important thing for us to focus on what management's reasoning is.
The important thing to see is that the training date swaps were working for EVERYONE until ONE INDIVIDUAL decided to try to use extortion tactics to get junior pilots to give him a piece of each trade the pilots got approved! By not working together, we have ALL payed the price.
I'm sure that if you talk to the senior guys who were blocking the swaps, though, they will try to tell you that they are satisfied that training is now being forcibly done in seniority order! What myopia!
WHEN will we learn to help each other instead of trying to screw each other over for individual gain?
I spent over 30 minutes with one of these guys trying to show them how to use the process to push back their downgrade. All I heard was how he got screwed by the company, the union, etc.
It's easier to sit back and cast stones than to figure out how to work with what you have left. People need to grow up!
The important thing to see is that the training date swaps were working for EVERYONE until ONE INDIVIDUAL decided to try to use extortion tactics to get junior pilots to give him a piece of each trade the pilots got approved! By not working together, we have ALL payed the price.
I'm sure that if you talk to the senior guys who were blocking the swaps, though, they will try to tell you that they are satisfied that training is now being forcibly done in seniority order! What myopia!
WHEN will we learn to help each other instead of trying to screw each other over for individual gain?
I spent over 30 minutes with one of these guys trying to show them how to use the process to push back their downgrade. All I heard was how he got screwed by the company, the union, etc.
It's easier to sit back and cast stones than to figure out how to work with what you have left. People need to grow up!
10-07-2009, 10:47 AM
#49
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: leaning to the left
Posts: 4,184
Originally Posted by tigerdriver
Here is the email I received today.
"Crew Staffing cannot approve your training
swap request, per PC, no swaps will
be approved for any pilot, excessed to a lower
seat, who is trying to move to a later training start
date."
Wonder what is up now?
"Crew Staffing cannot approve your training
swap request, per PC, no swaps will
be approved for any pilot, excessed to a lower
seat, who is trying to move to a later training start
date."
Wonder what is up now?
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