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Old 09-01-2009, 06:52 PM   #31  
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Originally Posted by DSflyer05 View Post
...when I am in the left seat i log PIC and when I am in the right seat I Log SIC. Does that sound like it would be logged accurately enough for the 1000 PIC turbine requirements?
Yeah but why does it matter, you fly a G5 right?
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Old 09-01-2009, 07:52 PM   #32  
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Originally Posted by DSflyer05 View Post
We do have an ops manual, but I don't recall anything reguarding duties of the crew members, except of course what the FAR's designate with requards to PIC duties. As Bolier said below your post we just have a trip sheet where we fill in names for the pilot flying for that particular leg, so as stated before, as a crew we understand that the person in the left seat for that particular leg is the PIC. If we do use contract pilots than myself for instance is the PIC for all the legs, even if I let the contractor fly from the left seat, because I am the only pilot in the airplane employed by the company, so at that time I am the only person responsible for the operation for the entire duration of the trip.

The great JD...

I have to agree at my former 135 we alternated legs and took turns logging SIC and PIC however our trip sheets did specify PIC and SIC so we just filled out trip sheets for the 135 legs and the 91 legs had different paper work
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Old 09-01-2009, 07:53 PM   #33  
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Yeah but why does it matter, you fly a G5 right?
He's also an expert on the Hawker and snowblades....
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Old 09-03-2009, 06:42 PM   #34  
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I'm a captain qualified FO for my company. When I sit in the left seat while the the captain is asleep I'm still an FO. Don't log PIC unless you are the PIC, by that I mean you are the one that will take the heat if the s#!t hits the fan. You will save yourself a lot of grief and trouble down the road.
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Old 08-11-2010, 07:37 AM   #35  
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Oh man these regs confuse the hell out of me sometimes.

So when I flew 121, I logged PIC when I acted as PIC. And at that company the guy sitting next to me was not typed in the aircraft so he logged SIC.

Now, I fly 91 where I am designated Captain/PIC on all trips/paperwork. I fly with another guy who has the same type rating/qualifications I do. We are both qualified as PIC under 91 for this aircraft. He claims we can both log PIC time during all flights, regardless of whether acting as PF or PNF. I say he is wrong. I have been logging PIC time for the legs I fly, and not logging PIC for his legs.

Another can of worms: When we have a third/relief pilot on these 91 legs, one of us sits in the cabin and rests. So if that relief pilot happens to be me for 2 hours out of a 7 hour flight, what do I log? 5 hours PIC? Or 7 hours PIC? I have been logging neither PIC or SIC for the time I am asleep. But of course, who is the PIC during the time I am sleeping?

Ideas?
 
Old 08-11-2010, 07:45 AM   #36  
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If you are the designated PIC of a flight, then you can log PIC for the entire flight regardless of what seat you sit in or who is PF/PNF. This is Part 1 PIC time.

That would mean the other pilot, even though he is PIC qualified, is a designated SIC; he could only log PIC for that time when he is the PF (via sole manipulator clause). This is Part 61 PIC time.

On the legs where you have an IRO, you're still the designated PIC responsible for the airplane, right? As such, you log PIC for the entire flight.

In my one-jet operation, we have two PICs. My title is Chief Pilot, the other guy's title is Captain. Our arrangement is there is only one acting & actual PIC for any given flight - the guy occupying the left "command" seat. On any given flight, the guy in the left seat drives the bus and acts/logs PIC; the guy in the right seat acts as PNF and logs SIC. Swap seats, swap responsibilities, swap what you log. Works well for us...
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Old 08-11-2010, 07:52 AM   #37  
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If you are the designated PIC of a flight, then you can log PIC for the entire flight regardless of what seat you sit in or who is PF/PNF. This is Part 1 PIC time.

That would mean the other pilot, even though he is PIC qualified, is a designated SIC; he could only log PIC for that time when he is the PF (via sole manipulator clause). This is Part 61 PIC time.

On the legs where you have an IRO, you're still the designated PIC responsible for the airplane, right? As such, you log PIC for the entire flight.

In my one-jet operation, we have two PICs. My title is Chief Pilot, the other guy's title is Captain. Our arrangement is there is only one acting & actual PIC for any given flight - the guy occupying the left "command" seat. On any given flight, the guy in the left seat drives the bus and acts/logs PIC; the guy in the right seat acts as PNF and logs SIC. Swap seats, swap responsibilities, swap what you log. Works well for us...
Thanks man! Good explanation.

So the legs that he flies are being logged as PIC by both of us. It is still a strange idea to me, but fair enough.
 
Old 08-11-2010, 07:54 AM   #38  
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I say you log it how you feel comfortable logging it. If you feel you shouldn't log something, then don't, no one is forcing you.

Unless you bend metal, or are going to another job and they somehow audit your logbook against someone else's, no one is going to know anything differently regardless.

If my hands are on the controls, I'm PIC, if I'm teaching/supervising/babysitting a lower-experience pilot, I'm PIC, if I'm flying with my co-worker, I don't log it. I don't fly 2-pilot aircraft, so it makes this decision easier.
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Old 08-11-2010, 09:17 PM   #39  
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Originally Posted by cgtpilot View Post
Sometimes 121 can be a beautiful thing. No worries over this sort of stuff just CAs & FOs.
Sure... but you can keep that paycheck.

As for logging the PIC time... I agree with the concept that in the absence of being "named" PIC, the flying pilot in the left seat logs PIC.

Last edited by RJSAviator76; 08-11-2010 at 09:35 PM.
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