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Old 12-02-2008, 07:46 PM   #21  
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Originally Posted by Sam McGowan View Post
If you are typed in the airplane, you can log PIC time any time you are the sole manipulator of the controls per CFR 61. In other words, if it's your leg, you can log it even if you are assigned as SIC.
Yep.
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Originally Posted by Sam McGowan View Post
If you are the assigned PIC you can log PIC time regardless of whether you're flying or not.
Nope, unless you are an ATP in an ATP operation.
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Old 12-02-2008, 07:58 PM   #22  
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Originally Posted by 250 or point 65 View Post
... can he not log those 10 minutes because he's not the "sole manipulator"?
Are you arguing about what the regs say, or about the "reasonableness" of the regs?

I would say that if you are demoing to a student for any time other than a tiny portion of the flight (less than a tenth of an hour) TO SOMEONE THAT IS ALREADY RATED IN THE AIRCRAFT, then:

1. Technically, according to the regs, he can't log the entire flight time as PIC.
2. If you are doing a demo to a rated pilot, of any maneuver that takes more than about 30 seconds, that's pretty unusual.

We aren't logging time to the nearest second, so the usual practice of "rounding" the rated student's "sole manipulator" time to the nearest tenth is reasonable.
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Old 12-03-2008, 12:23 PM   #23  
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Originally Posted by DeanGibson View Post
Yep.

Nope, unless you are an ATP in an ATP operation.
We were talking about this "ATP operation" the other day. What is it? I've never heard of it.
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Old 12-03-2008, 01:22 PM   #24  
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We were talking about this "ATP operation" the other day. What is it? I've never heard of it.
See FAR 61.51(e)(2); I don't know any more than that.
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Old 12-04-2008, 06:46 PM   #25  
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Ah............i get it now any operation that requires an ATP aka 121 flying.
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Old 12-04-2008, 07:26 PM   #26  
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Originally Posted by 250 or point 65 View Post
...
FURTHERMORE, I can take a private pilot up to show him a takeoff, pattern, and landing and HE can log PIC if he never touches the controls because Dual given as a private is PIC.
No. The private pilot must manipulate the controls to log the time as PIC. Dual given is not PIC time, just "dual given" in the instructor's logbook, and "dual received" in the students logbook. It has nothing to do with logging PIC time as stated in 61.51.
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Old 12-04-2008, 07:28 PM   #27  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam McGowan View Post
If you are typed in the airplane, you can log PIC time any time you are the sole manipulator of the controls per CFR 61. ...
Not if you are an ATP. Only a sport, recreational, private, or commercial pilot may log PIC as sole manipulator for an aircraft for which the pilot is rated.
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Old 12-05-2008, 04:33 AM   #28  
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Originally Posted by DSflyer05 View Post
Our trip sheets just name "crew members" (pilots) not captian and fo. On the last leg of the trip, or when we get back somebody says "well I'll go do the paperwork," and he goes and does it. Nobody has ever asked to "speak with the captian," so I guess I would just say can I help you. We also trade off tasks such as flight planning, so typically when I do the flightplans I put my name as PIC because we don't know which legs we will be flying in the left seat at that point, so it just makes it eaiser. At least Im glad to see that USMCFLYR agrees with the way I log my time anybody else have any input?
I can tell you that while during an interview for an operation looking for Part 1 PIC time you will have to explain why your PIC and SIC swap legs. Log it as you wish it just depends what your end goal is. I have never had a corporate interview that required Part 1 PIC. Most insurance companies use Part 61 PIC to meet minimum standards.
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Old 12-16-2008, 02:47 PM   #29  
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got to agree with DSflyer05, we operate about the same exact way. log what you want, just be able to explain yourself as something more than a time-padding right seater
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Old 12-16-2008, 05:18 PM   #30  
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Sometimes 121 can be a beautiful thing. No worries over this sort of stuff just CAs & FOs.
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