Lockdown and Civil Unrest Discussion
04-26-2020, 04:29 PM
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,898
Originally Posted by Setopbug
I can totally understand and empathize with your desire to get to work. It's been a month and it's killing me to not have an airplane to fly right now.
But your willingness to accept personal risk is not a decision you get to make for others. Your desire to disregard the professionals we have that spend a lifetime in public health and our practitioners, virologists, researchers and epidemiologists isn't wise. It's an emotional reaction to a perceived threat to your livelihood.
Rushing back to work now will result in much more damage to our economy and our infrastructure. We have to come through the other side of this with our healthcare system, pathetic as it is compared to the rest of the world, intact. Able to treat sick people. We cannot afford to needlessly kill much larger portions of the population than a return to normal ops would result in.
The experts are as close to correct as we're going to get. Just because they don't always get it perfect means we should abandon their counsel and start listening to politicians who can barely form a coherent sentence.
And what sucks the most? Is that we don't have the leadership in place to handle this. There's no coordinated response. No political detente as both sides set aside their concerns and act together for the good of country.
Just small groups of governors from both parties doing the best that they can. And many of them aren't up to the task.
It will be safe to go back to work when you see the White House open for daily tours again. It will be OK to drag your family to Hawaii and spend money when you see state houses open, with elected officials doing your work.
It will be safe to go back to work when agencies like the CDC says it is, and their scientists' conditions are all met.
Until then, it isn't safe for any of us to be out and about.
But your willingness to accept personal risk is not a decision you get to make for others. Your desire to disregard the professionals we have that spend a lifetime in public health and our practitioners, virologists, researchers and epidemiologists isn't wise. It's an emotional reaction to a perceived threat to your livelihood.
Rushing back to work now will result in much more damage to our economy and our infrastructure. We have to come through the other side of this with our healthcare system, pathetic as it is compared to the rest of the world, intact. Able to treat sick people. We cannot afford to needlessly kill much larger portions of the population than a return to normal ops would result in.
The experts are as close to correct as we're going to get. Just because they don't always get it perfect means we should abandon their counsel and start listening to politicians who can barely form a coherent sentence.
And what sucks the most? Is that we don't have the leadership in place to handle this. There's no coordinated response. No political detente as both sides set aside their concerns and act together for the good of country.
Just small groups of governors from both parties doing the best that they can. And many of them aren't up to the task.
It will be safe to go back to work when you see the White House open for daily tours again. It will be OK to drag your family to Hawaii and spend money when you see state houses open, with elected officials doing your work.
It will be safe to go back to work when agencies like the CDC says it is, and their scientists' conditions are all met.
Until then, it isn't safe for any of us to be out and about.
Oh please. Don't give me this "it's not safe" crap. What's happening is 98.5%+ that are sacrificing EVERYTHING so we can save the 1.5% (if even that). This can only go on so long. I'm with the original poster. Open everything. Let us get infected and develop herd immunity. The majority of people dying with this (and I mean no offense, I had grand parents, 3 are already dead, 1 alive), are already at the end term of their life cycle. That's the predominate fatality age group, the 70+. Keep them home and isolated from everyone else.
It is safe for 98.5%. You'll get sick, you'll recover. That's the reality for the overwhelming majority of people. Everything we are doing is to avoid overloading the hospital system and to save old/compromised people.
Last edited by ShyGuy; 04-26-2020 at 04:42 PM.
04-26-2020, 04:36 PM
#32
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2013
Posts: 539
Originally Posted by massgflight
I agree. This is a respectable reply. Freedom is choice. I have a choice, you have a choice, we all have a choice. Thank God for America.
No, I’m in command of nothing. Never implied otherwise. Free to choose, for everyone. Thats what I believe in. Best to all.
No, I’m in command of nothing. Never implied otherwise. Free to choose, for everyone. Thats what I believe in. Best to all.
I also agree that freedom is a choice, and having freedom allows for choice. However we protect our freedom if we are willing to sacrifice a small (very small) amount for the collective good. That is the essence of many laws we have today. We’re free but not absolutely free. There are restrictions in our lives but we accept these knowing that it benefits the greater good, and therefore benefits us.
Firlds of Fire written by James Webb addresses this at the end of the book. Well worth the read.
04-26-2020, 04:42 PM
#33
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,898
Originally Posted by Barley
When safety is assured the flying public will regain confidence and bookings will return. Scream out the hick rally cries all you want. Reality can’t be changed.
Since when has safety ever been assured for the public? Newsflash, you get in a car you can die. You get on a plane, you can die. You can be in your own home and fall down the stairs and die. Life is full of things that can kill you. We accept that because inside we realize the chances of that happening to us are fairly low. Same with coronovairus. The vast overwhelming majority of us will get sick and recover. The old and compromised lungs are the vast majority of fatalities. Protect them, and let the rest out.
04-26-2020, 04:43 PM
#34
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2020
Posts: 84
Originally Posted by NeverHome
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6914e4.htm
Ill make it easy for you. From the CDC:
however, disease characteristics among pediatric patients in the United States have not been described.
Yes it’s great that New York may not have children who died from covid with no underlying conditions, however as a nation, this hasn’t been fully vetted yet. So again, no it is unwise to assume children are just ok with this virus.
and again in your own links, they explicitly state that these are “preliminary and subject to change”. I’m not willing to bet children or others lives or even our own economy on “preliminary”.
Ill make it easy for you. From the CDC:
however, disease characteristics among pediatric patients in the United States have not been described.
Yes it’s great that New York may not have children who died from covid with no underlying conditions, however as a nation, this hasn’t been fully vetted yet. So again, no it is unwise to assume children are just ok with this virus.
and again in your own links, they explicitly state that these are “preliminary and subject to change”. I’m not willing to bet children or others lives or even our own economy on “preliminary”.
The studies on children in China with COVID-19 replicate the data from NYC. They are published in The Lancet.
Go hide under a rock trembling with fear with tin foil over your head. Leave the rest of us alone.
04-26-2020, 04:47 PM
#35
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2019
Posts: 407
Originally Posted by ShyGuy
Since when has safety ever been assured for the public? Newsflash, you get in a car you can die. You get on a plane, you can die. You can be in your own home and fall down the stairs and die. Life is full of things that can kill you. We accept that because inside we realize the chances of that happening to us are fairly low. Same with coronovairus. The vast overwhelming majority of us will get sick and recover. The old and compromised lungs are the vast majority of fatalities. Protect them, and let the rest out.
Spare us the "life is dangerous" life lesson please. Some risks are bigger than others.
If you want to get back to business, what you need to be is comforting to people, make them feel safer going out. Don't be surprised though if you need to compete with evidence that doesn't support you in totality. The perception is what it's all about.
04-26-2020, 04:49 PM
#36
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2011
Position: A Nobody
Posts: 1,559
Originally Posted by Setopbug
Until then, it isn't safe for any of us to be out and about.
Wow!
You bought the narrative hook line and sinker!
How do you define “safe?”
At what level will people be “safe?”
How do you measure “safe?”
Or are you just waiting for someone to say it is “safe” to step outside, take off your gloves and mask?
Can I just suggest then that you always wear sunscreen outside, don’t eat I’m Mexican restaurants, be sure to...
May you get it, maybe not.
You ask for data and yet you posted that wildly unscientific and undefinable statement.
04-26-2020, 04:50 PM
#37
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Sep 2017
Posts: 149
Originally Posted by Setopbug
I can totally understand and empathize with your desire to get to work. It's been a month and it's killing me to not have an airplane to fly right now.
But your willingness to accept personal risk is not a decision you get to make for others. Your desire to disregard the professionals we have that spend a lifetime in public health and our practitioners, virologists, researchers and epidemiologists isn't wise. It's an emotional reaction to a perceived threat to your livelihood.
Rushing back to work now will result in much more damage to our economy and our infrastructure. We have to come through the other side of this with our healthcare system, pathetic as it is compared to the rest of the world, intact. Able to treat sick people. We cannot afford to needlessly kill much larger portions of the population than a return to normal ops would result in.
The experts are as close to correct as we're going to get. Just because they don't always get it perfect means we should abandon their counsel and start listening to politicians who can barely form a coherent sentence.
And what sucks the most? Is that we don't have the leadership in place to handle this. There's no coordinated response. No political detente as both sides set aside their concerns and act together for the good of country.
Just small groups of governors from both parties doing the best that they can. And many of them aren't up to the task.
It will be safe to go back to work when you see the White House open for daily tours again. It will be OK to drag your family to Hawaii and spend money when you see state houses open, with elected officials doing your work.
It will be safe to go back to work when agencies like the CDC says it is, and their scientists' conditions are all met.
Until then, it isn't safe for any of us to be out and about.
But your willingness to accept personal risk is not a decision you get to make for others. Your desire to disregard the professionals we have that spend a lifetime in public health and our practitioners, virologists, researchers and epidemiologists isn't wise. It's an emotional reaction to a perceived threat to your livelihood.
Rushing back to work now will result in much more damage to our economy and our infrastructure. We have to come through the other side of this with our healthcare system, pathetic as it is compared to the rest of the world, intact. Able to treat sick people. We cannot afford to needlessly kill much larger portions of the population than a return to normal ops would result in.
The experts are as close to correct as we're going to get. Just because they don't always get it perfect means we should abandon their counsel and start listening to politicians who can barely form a coherent sentence.
And what sucks the most? Is that we don't have the leadership in place to handle this. There's no coordinated response. No political detente as both sides set aside their concerns and act together for the good of country.
Just small groups of governors from both parties doing the best that they can. And many of them aren't up to the task.
It will be safe to go back to work when you see the White House open for daily tours again. It will be OK to drag your family to Hawaii and spend money when you see state houses open, with elected officials doing your work.
It will be safe to go back to work when agencies like the CDC says it is, and their scientists' conditions are all met.
Until then, it isn't safe for any of us to be out and about.
Ill take my chances. You do what you want buddy. Freedom. Its up to you. Sure, rules and guidance will be dictated. I don’t prefer dictation.
04-26-2020, 04:51 PM
#38
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,898
Originally Posted by NeverHome
I also agree that freedom is a choice, and having freedom allows for choice. However we protect our freedom if we are willing to sacrifice a small (very small) amount for the collective good. That is the essence of many laws we have today. We’re free but not absolutely free. There are restrictions in our lives but we accept these knowing that it benefits the greater good, and therefore benefits us.
04-26-2020, 04:51 PM
#39
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2011
Position: A Nobody
Posts: 1,559
Originally Posted by GA2Jets
Ya I think he means when perception that safety is assured.
Spare us the "life is dangerous" life lesson please. Some risks are bigger than others.
If you want to get back to business, what you need to be is comforting to people, make them feel safer going out. Don't be surprised though if you need to compete with evidence that doesn't support you in totality. The perception is what it's all about.
Spare us the "life is dangerous" life lesson please. Some risks are bigger than others.
If you want to get back to business, what you need to be is comforting to people, make them feel safer going out. Don't be surprised though if you need to compete with evidence that doesn't support you in totality. The perception is what it's all about.
BTW I agree with you totally about perception and the need for leaders to comfort people into an acceptable level of safe risk.
04-26-2020, 05:02 PM
#40
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,898
Originally Posted by GA2Jets
Ya I think he means when perception that safety is assured.
Spare us the "life is dangerous" life lesson please. Some risks are bigger than others.
If you want to get back to business, what you need to be is comforting to people, make them feel safer going out. Don't be surprised though if you need to compete with evidence that doesn't support you in totality. The perception is what it's all about.
Spare us the "life is dangerous" life lesson please. Some risks are bigger than others.
If you want to get back to business, what you need to be is comforting to people, make them feel safer going out. Don't be surprised though if you need to compete with evidence that doesn't support you in totality. The perception is what it's all about.
Perception is what it's all about. I agree. Turn off the damn TV. Stop watching CNN, MSNBC, and Fox news. I've never felt in danger. I feel as safe now as I did in January. How about you?
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