Denny Crane

Frankly, it doesn't matter how other companies do it, it matters how it's set up at Delta. With that in mind..........

I question why a senior guy in one base would bid TDY to another base and now lose all that seniority and bid at the bottom of the TD base........It doesn't make sense. It only makes sense for a commuter or a guy who lives in the TD base but cannot hold it.

You are gonna have to explain to me how bidding a TD base, with the corresponding loss of seniority, pays any more than flying out of their permanent base and keeping their seniority. I just don't see how. Heck, maybe I will do it if I can get more pay........

Denny

Baradium

Since you don't seem to actually be reading what I am saying, I'll try again. This is exactly what I said:

"My experience with TDYs is that senior pilots would bid it to get the per diem and hotels. The big change here though is that they'd have to give up all their seniority so I imagine it'd go more junior. TDYs generally go to commuters who don't live in a base period. "

I already gave you that it'd go more junior with the Delta rules, so you can argue that with yourself all you want.


As far as only people who would bid to that base if they could... which doesn't really make sense what you're upset about there the more I think about it. If they aren't senior enough to hold it they'd be at the bottom of the seniority list in that base anyway (where they'd definitely be under the TDY rules). Anyone else who wanted it would be able to bid for the TDY as well.

A reason for someone who doesn't live in a base to do a TDY is pretty clear. Paid hotels etc. Just paid hotels is money that costs the company. That is a cost that a based pilot doesn't have since they would be responsible for their own lodging. If a TDY pilot gets per diem it just goes up.



As far as why senior guys would do it, since I specified that it was the case in OTHER contracts, but you don't want to include them for discussions about TDYs overall it makes it difficult. You don't seem to be advocating against TDYs as currently written, you're against all TDYs regardless. If you would like to change your argument to TDYs as currently written per our contract aren't really great, we can have a different discussion. My point has simply been that they can be done in a beneficial way to the pilot group and are not cheaper than a based pilot.

Denny Crane

IMO Temporary Duty potentially will be a huge hit to manning and overtime. It is a step in the direction of making ATL an even bigger pilot base than it is... I foresee the company making any/all category/s in Atlanta bigger while not increasing time and then using TDY to "right size" an outlying base on a month to month basis. This is NOT good for the pilot group.

You have not convinced me of what your last sentence says. You can say that all you want. The devil is in the details and you haven't provided any. I don't like the company's potential in our details. I think it's a baaad idea. Like I said in a previous post, it's probably not going to effect me much if it is implemented. I'd end up being more senior in category but probably lose out on overtime because of more pilots in a category with the same amount of flying.

Any way, it's been a good discussion and I'm sorry if I've ticked you off.

Denny

Baradium

We were trying to talk about different things. My point is simply that TDYs as a whole aren't necessarily all that bad, it just depends on how the contract is written. I'm not arguing for TDYs as currently written in the contract, just saying that we could get them changed in a way that made for a good deal for us and one that cost the company enough to not use them much at all.


An important thing about TDY rules in the contract is to limit them in a way that they can't be regularly done to the same places. IE, you can't just have a TDY of 777 pilots to DTW every spring from any base. If done correctly, I see the biggest use of the TDYs as allowing staffing changes that need to be done quickly while waiting for the AE process to provide the permanent pilots.


You haven't ticked me off, sorry if I came across that way. I was just tired and posting before going to sleep.

gloopy

All that does is help the company, and it does it in a way that still reduces manning. They can already quickly cover peak hours and sudden marketing fluxes TDY-style with deadheads and hotels. That still allows us to put out their fires, but in a way that's staffing positive for us. Win-win. VB's and TDY's are ways to help the company in a way that reduces the need for pilots. Why would we ever agree to that?

Vincent Chase

Dilly Dilly!
And the ratio should be something that gives more block hours back to Delta metal from JVs for each credit hour reduced.

I get that intl hours vs. domestic are drastically different, but the company will have to weigh that against the positive space requirements and staffing efficiencies to figure it out.

Now if only we had a union that would make this an item worth falling on its sword over or else we get rid of this VB idea altogether.

Vincent Chase

Citing a single guy who may live in FL for tax purposes and flies out of NYC while living in his crash pad is not indicative of the norm.

Just trying (like others) to point out your crazy logic.

sailingfun

The only flaws in you argument are that he has no crash pad and lives full time in FL in a rather expensive home.

gloopy

If you're making that much, who cares if you have an expensive home and a crashpad?

Denny Crane

I understand what you’re saying. I’m VERY skeptical it can be done in any way that would make it a win/win.

I know it’s a whole different topic but if the company was that concerned with staffing changes that they need to use TDY to cover a base until an AE, then something is wrong. They need to put out a TDY bid 2 months before it becomes active. If the company is that concerned, they should negotiate a monthly AE process like NW had. (I don’t know how it worked but it was monthly)

Alls Good!

Denny