The logic is the same though on getting raises. The only difference is that the amount is smaller. The raise will always be there if we move PS to pay rates too, but it won't be a negotiating advantage the next round of negotiations just like this wouldn't be.

To put another way, when we go before the NMB or even general perception, they look at our pay rates compared to our peers. If our base pay is lower it is easier to go for an increase than if it has parity. If we set it up so a lower base pay gives us the same take home, it is easier for us to use other carriers pay based negotiations to get more money in our pockets. If we put it in hourly rates we are not getting as much advantage when United later increases their rates above ours.

EDIT: I missed the colored part...

That will be the company's goal, yes. The cost out the contract and that costs them money if it's a DHD pay provision. But it's even easier when we talk about direct pay increases. In either case, when it is being negotiated, the company will cost the amount out. So even ignoring other contract provisions, they don't see DC and base pay amounts as a percentage, they see them as dollars over the whole pilot group. I do not agree that the choice is between 5% to DC or 5% base pay so base pay makes the pot larger.

 

Ok everyone, I've gotten my fix for today!

I gotta go. Today is my wife's birthday.

Denny

 

Without a civil discussion we won’t get anywhere. :-)

I’m all for retirement enhancements. I’m quite confused by the different options and our Union could do a much better job explaining what we’re looking at. However, my priority for the next contract isn’t retirement number one. Maybe it’s because I’m younger, but it’s just not my number one priority. I can’t tell you where it is on my list because I haven’t thought about it. From my perspective it DOES feel like DALPA is making it their number one priority. I’m not cool with that.

 

You slummed it at the regional for 11 years because the retirement age was raised to age 65. Your 11 years should have been 6 years.

 

American management was quite surprised when the PBGC actually said no. During the years when USAir, UAL and DAL lost their retirements the head of the PBGC was quite receptive to accepting almost any plan presented. In 2008 we had a new administration come in and with that new Admin came a new head of the PBGC, as the PBGC is hybrid government/corporate agency. When AMR filed with a lot of cash the new head of PBGC said, “prove you can’t reorganize with with your pension obligations.” Here we are today. Politics matter.

You are correct that if we had a new qualified plan that was someday terminated it would go to the PBGC. BUT, and this is a big *******ing BUT, once an individual has reached the PBGC max from one (or more) plan(s), that individual get ZERO more dollars from the PBGC regardless of how many more plans are turned over to them and what that individual would be owed. This is one of the reasons this “older”pilot does not want a new DB plan.

 

Huge overlooked point!!!! Thanks DT

 

If you’re one of the guys approaching 65 years old, you have had the opportunity to add an additional 5 years at the top of our pay scales to your bank accounts. You’ve made an additional $250,000+ in 401k contributions alone over that additional 5 years. In today’s environment you’ve also made an additional $150,000 over the same time period in profit sharing alone. That’s $400,000 NOT INCLUDING YOUR SALARY!

The pension is gone. A thing of the past. Our 16% DC may not be there as Denny said for the next 25+ years either if the economy takes a turn. What Delta pilot is hurting retirement wise at this time? Even with the math above + what you have saved in the past should be plenty. Sell your boat.

 

Uh, we took a 50% whack on the W2. Forgot to mention that. The extra 5 wasn't my idea. One wife, no boats, never invested with a concert promoter. You got the wrong idea. But if you want to make this a old v young, let's go.

 

We need to understand that getting a good contract is not splitting the group, but by every pilot understanding that everyone needs to pull for the group. The oldest, most senior need to want scope and job security for the entire pilot group as much as the newest pilot has to want great retirement benefits (in whatever form they come) for the entire pilot group.

Otherwise the process breaks down and we don’t improve anything.

 

No, during that time he/she was taking flying that should have been mainline, keeping many at the company FOs instead of the Captains they should have been. Makes about as much sense as what you said.