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Old 10-12-2018, 04:41 AM
  #111  
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Originally Posted by CoefficientX View Post
“Touching trips” = line bidding.

No thanks, ever.
I gets posted over and over on these forums and is 100% false. Do many (if any) PBS carries have trips touching, I think not, but that's not because it's an impossibility. PBS is just code, therefore can be coded however we want it coded. Negotiating it is anothet story.

I don't disagree that the 12 day trips could be a major hang up, but that could be mitigated with smart negotiating.
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Old 10-12-2018, 04:44 AM
  #112  
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Originally Posted by Qotsaautopilot View Post
It’s easy because you are a GD professional with immense responsibility and mountains of experience. Grab mister office job from economy comfort and have him switch with you for just one leg never mind a month and ask him at the end if it was easy. This job is far from easy. When all airline pilots get this ingrained in their brains is when big gains get made.

My father in law retired from a C-level position. He said the higher he rose the more money he made and the easier the job got. He had more responsibility but the actual work was easier.

The OB that delivered my two kids goes in and knocks out natural deliveries, c-sections, high risk cases, and complications all in a days work. I guarantee he thinks his job is easy too. Do I? No, because I can’t do what he does.

Point being, experts in their field probably think their job is easy but they don’t tell others that thereby delvaluing their own worth or accept less because of it.

And after decades of breathing that PACK air catch up to you you’ll need all that time off just to feel normal again.
Well than you and I agree. I wasn’t screaming to the world that the job was easy or advocating for less compensation. I was replying to another pilot on this thread who commented that we deserve more vacation because the job is so much harder than the rest of the working world. That argument doesn’t hold any water for me. Let’s be honest, to us “GD professionals” this job is pretty easy just like it is to the seasoned heart surgeon or the master plumber.

Hell if difficulty of the job is going to be the measure of vacation then the regional guy flying 6 legs a day, 20 days a month gets 5 weeks and the guy flying 3 PVG turns a month gets 2 weeks.

My main beef with our vacation is the pitifully low credit. A week of. vacation basically gets you 4 extra days off. I’d like to see 5:15 a day or maybe bring back trip touching by not preloading vacation onto the PBS calendar (basically bid like a shadow OE period)
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Old 10-12-2018, 05:32 AM
  #113  
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Originally Posted by crewdawg View Post
I gets posted over and over on these forums and is 100% false. Do many (if any) PBS carries have trips touching, I think not, but that's not because it's an impossibility. PBS is just code, therefore can be coded however we want it coded. Negotiating it is anothet story.

I don't disagree that the 12 day trips could be a major hang up, but that could be mitigated with smart negotiating.
This.

Touching trips could be programmed very easily, in a way that "dropped" trips need not even go into open time, just like shadow bidding. PBS could build the pilot's line or reserve schedule, then apply vacation to drop affected rotations. The very next bidder would have those rotations available for assignment (or vacation touching drop, depending on what rules were negotiated).
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Old 10-12-2018, 07:38 AM
  #114  
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Originally Posted by crewdawg View Post
I gets posted over and over on these forums and is 100% false. Do many (if any) PBS carries have trips touching, I think not, but that's not because it's an impossibility. PBS is just code, therefore can be coded however we want it coded. Negotiating it is anothet story.

I don't disagree that the 12 day trips could be a major hang up, but that could be mitigated with smart negotiating.



Totally correct, PBS is just a computer program that converts a given PWA into a monthly schedule. Get "Trips Touching" in your PWA (unlikely) and PBS can then "grant" trips touching.


He was right however in this sentiment that the fidelity that PBS brings to scheduling enabled the elimination of trips touching.


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Old 10-12-2018, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by sailingfun View Post
This is incorrect. Touching trips is easily programmable in PBS. The problem is we have 12 day long trips. Bid correctly and you could touch two 12 day trips and take 2 months off.
Cue: “yeah, we DESERVE that!”
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Old 10-12-2018, 10:01 AM
  #116  
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Originally Posted by crewdawg View Post
I gets posted over and over on these forums and is 100% false. Do many (if any) PBS carries have trips touching, I think not, but that's not because it's an impossibility. PBS is just code, therefore can be coded however we want it coded. Negotiating it is anothet story.

I don't disagree that the 12 day trips could be a major hang up, but that could be mitigated with smart negotiating.
At ASA we had PBS and used a concept called "vacation low".... very simply put you bid to a lower threshold line value in a vacation month than the rest of the pilot group. One week of vacation was easily turned into 3 weeks off throughout the seniority list. Worked well and the pilots liked it.
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Old 10-12-2018, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by CBreezy View Post
Cue: “yeah, we DESERVE that!”
What a country! 5 weeks of vacation and you could have 10 months off! Love it!
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Old 10-13-2018, 06:49 PM
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Originally Posted by asacimesp View Post
At ASA we had PBS and used a concept called "vacation low".... very simply put you bid to a lower threshold line value in a vacation month than the rest of the pilot group. One week of vacation was easily turned into 3 weeks off throughout the seniority list. Worked well and the pilots liked it.

It worked great and often equaled or beat what a “trip touching” line bid could produce, while maintaining the greater schedule flexibility of a PBS system. I’d usually only work 6-7 days in a month with a single vacation week.
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Old 10-15-2018, 07:52 AM
  #119  
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Originally Posted by sailingfun View Post
This is incorrect. Touching trips is easily programmable in PBS. The problem is we have 12 day long trips. Bid correctly and you could touch two 12 day trips and take 2 months off.
FedEx has long trips too and they seem fine with their vacation drop? (I'm just playing devil's advocate. I'm fine with the current set up, just would like vacation days to be worth more .)
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