Vacation
09-29-2018 | 01:38 AM
#1
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Gets Weekends Off
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Vacation
Our current max vacation is 126 hours.
In 1990 (28 years ago) the Delta pilots max vacation was 191:15. 7 weeks.
FedEx pilot max is 216 hours. 6 hours per day.
__________________
Jerry Fielding
In 1990 (28 years ago) the Delta pilots max vacation was 191:15. 7 weeks.
FedEx pilot max is 216 hours. 6 hours per day.
__________________
Jerry Fielding
09-29-2018 | 04:39 AM
#2
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2014
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If we are going to get back to 191 hours during a contract that will see an explosion in retirements, there will simply have to be some offsetting productivity swap (IMHO). Personally, I can accept adding an additional week at all longevity steps, while making that one and only one week eligible for voluntary sell-back.
09-29-2018 | 05:21 AM
#3
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Joined: Jul 2006
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I too think productivity gives will be fought hard by the company, but vacation sellback is not something I want in the contract. 1 week this contract, every week the next. There are more creative ways to get more money out of our vacation. The problem with vacation sellback is that pilots will sell it back...
Also, don't discount UPS style vacation just because they "only" have 175 hours worth of vacation. If they drop two weeks of vacation in one month, they have a provision to get the entire month off. I know, I know, they're "not our peers..."
Also, don't discount UPS style vacation just because they "only" have 175 hours worth of vacation. If they drop two weeks of vacation in one month, they have a provision to get the entire month off. I know, I know, they're "not our peers..."
09-29-2018 | 06:31 AM
#4
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,265
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From: DAL 330
Vacation is one area that we are truly lagging the industry.
As far as productivity goes if we are retiring a lot of Pilots we should hire accordingly.There are many ways to measure productivity with the most common being block hours flown. Block hours however do not relate to profits but revenue does. Last time I checked, on a per Pilot basis, DAL Pilots produce more revenue per year than Southwest Pilots. Our productivity is fine.
Scoop
09-29-2018 | 08:09 AM
#5
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2008
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Vacation is one area that we are truly lagging the industry. As far as productivity goes if we are retiring a lot of Pilots we should hire accordingly.
There are many ways to measure productivity with the most common being block hours flown. Block hours however do not relate to profits but revenue does. Last time I checked, on a per Pilot basis, DAL Pilots produce more revenue per year than Southwest Pilots. Our productivity is fine.
Scoop
As far as productivity goes if we are retiring a lot of Pilots we should hire accordingly.There are many ways to measure productivity with the most common being block hours flown. Block hours however do not relate to profits but revenue does. Last time I checked, on a per Pilot basis, DAL Pilots produce more revenue per year than Southwest Pilots. Our productivity is fine.
Scoop
DL-1357xxx
SWA-1337xxx
Total revenue however is more in our favor. Delta had 41B in total revenue with 14,600 pilots. SWA had 21B with 9600 pilots.
09-29-2018 | 12:14 PM
#6
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Joined: Dec 2012
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When a senior (19+ year) pilot retires, that removes 5 weeks of 'pilot productivity loss' at the top of whatever pay-scale said pilot resides.
When we hire a new pilot, we're adding 1-2 weeks of 'pilot productivity loss' at the lower end of the pay scales.
Does the massive number of retirements and the resulting shift (younger/newer) of the pilot group influence our leverage/negotiating capital in this area? I know that in terms of the whole, this may be a drop in the bucket.
But to me it seems like the retirements are reducing a cost of a 'senior' pilot group.
No offense intended to the senior pilots; I'm just jealous I won't ever hit the 19+ level on the vacation scale. (hired older)
When we hire a new pilot, we're adding 1-2 weeks of 'pilot productivity loss' at the lower end of the pay scales.
Does the massive number of retirements and the resulting shift (younger/newer) of the pilot group influence our leverage/negotiating capital in this area? I know that in terms of the whole, this may be a drop in the bucket.
But to me it seems like the retirements are reducing a cost of a 'senior' pilot group.
No offense intended to the senior pilots; I'm just jealous I won't ever hit the 19+ level on the vacation scale. (hired older)
09-29-2018 | 12:44 PM
#7
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2010
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From: window seat
Adjust that to account for the massive fleet variety that the company electively chooses to have. At a minimum over 1000 pilots can be taken out of that end of the equation and placed squarely in the column of management discretion. SWA has as close to zero training churn as any airline in history, while DL has very high, almost completely self inflicted training churn. That's on them not us.
09-29-2018 | 12:45 PM
#8
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 12,845
Likes: 196
From: window seat
If we are going to get back to 191 hours during a contract that will see an explosion in retirements, there will simply have to be some offsetting productivity swap (IMHO). Personally, I can accept adding an additional week at all longevity steps, while making that one and only one week eligible for voluntary sell-back.
09-29-2018 | 02:07 PM
#9
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2012
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From: 7ER Costar
Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
09-29-2018 | 04:28 PM
#10
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 5,152
Likes: 132
When a senior (19+ year) pilot retires, that removes 5 weeks of 'pilot productivity loss' at the top of whatever pay-scale said pilot resides.
When we hire a new pilot, we're adding 1-2 weeks of 'pilot productivity loss' at the lower end of the pay scales.
Does the massive number of retirements and the resulting shift (younger/newer) of the pilot group influence our leverage/negotiating capital in this area? I know that in terms of the whole, this may be a drop in the bucket.
But to me it seems like the retirements are reducing a cost of a 'senior' pilot group.
No offense intended to the senior pilots; I'm just jealous I won't ever hit the 19+ level on the vacation scale. (hired older)
When we hire a new pilot, we're adding 1-2 weeks of 'pilot productivity loss' at the lower end of the pay scales.
Does the massive number of retirements and the resulting shift (younger/newer) of the pilot group influence our leverage/negotiating capital in this area? I know that in terms of the whole, this may be a drop in the bucket.
But to me it seems like the retirements are reducing a cost of a 'senior' pilot group.
No offense intended to the senior pilots; I'm just jealous I won't ever hit the 19+ level on the vacation scale. (hired older)
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