C2019 Completed By The Amendable Date
06-01-2019, 03:34 PM
#91
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2008
Position: Kickin’ Back
Posts: 6,971
Originally Posted by buckleyboy
Denny, I am splitting scrotal hairs here, but a captain should adapt to his/her FO’s in certain respects. Newhires, new to fleet, first time a certain airport, etc. all require the captain to run the show a little differently. Especially newhires.
Oh I absolutely agree with the above.
As a lower seniority captain who is closer to the age of most of the FOs with whom I fly, I gather that a lot of the beef FOs have with captains stems from the company’s communication to captains to fulfill the obligation set forth by the post-Colgan FAA mandate for each carrier to institute a “mentor program.” (Long sentence!)
Best I can figure, in-command and newhire mentors check that box. Additionally, captains are told early and often to mentor their FOs. I take this to mean, in no particular order:
-let the FOs learn specific fleet techniques at their own pace—eg, don’t impose techniques on an FO, and allow mistakes to happen so long as they are not egregious or dangerous
-make them aware of the crapper below B18 in ATL that is away from the hustle of the concourse
-show them out to get in the lounge in other hubs for long sits
-if they ask about PCS, share knowledge
-parking lot hacks
-etc etc etc
Agreed!
But DON’T offer unsolicited “advice” telling them:
-how to bid
-how to raise children
-how to invest
-the science behind radars, complete with pictures drawn on the back of flight plan for 2.5 hours
-etc etc etc
Not saying Denny or anyone else here does any of the above, but there are unfortunately some who do. One man’s assessment, but I surmise that is mostly why FO’s gripe about otherwise decent human beings captains.
Oh I absolutely agree with the above.
As a lower seniority captain who is closer to the age of most of the FOs with whom I fly, I gather that a lot of the beef FOs have with captains stems from the company’s communication to captains to fulfill the obligation set forth by the post-Colgan FAA mandate for each carrier to institute a “mentor program.” (Long sentence!)
Best I can figure, in-command and newhire mentors check that box. Additionally, captains are told early and often to mentor their FOs. I take this to mean, in no particular order:
-let the FOs learn specific fleet techniques at their own pace—eg, don’t impose techniques on an FO, and allow mistakes to happen so long as they are not egregious or dangerous
-make them aware of the crapper below B18 in ATL that is away from the hustle of the concourse
-show them out to get in the lounge in other hubs for long sits
-if they ask about PCS, share knowledge
-parking lot hacks
-etc etc etc
Agreed!
But DON’T offer unsolicited “advice” telling them:
-how to bid
-how to raise children
-how to invest
-the science behind radars, complete with pictures drawn on the back of flight plan for 2.5 hours
-etc etc etc
Not saying Denny or anyone else here does any of the above, but there are unfortunately some who do. One man’s assessment, but I surmise that is mostly why FO’s gripe about otherwise decent human beings captains.
Denny
06-01-2019, 03:37 PM
#93
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2010
Position: Stretch DC-9 Gear Slinger
Posts: 615
Originally Posted by buckleyboy
Denny, I am splitting scrotal hairs here, but a captain should adapt to his/her FO’s in certain respects. Newhires, new to fleet, first time a certain airport, etc. all require the captain to run the show a little differently. Especially newhires.
As a lower seniority captain who is closer to the age of most of the FOs with whom I fly, I gather that a lot of the beef FOs have with captains stems from the company’s communication to captains to fulfill the obligation set forth by the post-Colgan FAA mandate for each carrier to institute a “mentor program.” (Long sentence!)
Best I can figure, in-command and newhire mentors check that box. Additionally, captains are told early and often to mentor their FOs. I take this to mean, in no particular order:
-let the FOs learn specific fleet techniques at their own pace—eg, don’t impose techniques on an FO, and allow mistakes to happen so long as they are not egregious or dangerous
-make them aware of the crapper below B18 in ATL that is away from the hustle of the concourse
-show them out to get in the lounge in other hubs for long sits
-if they ask about PCS, share knowledge
-parking lot hacks
-etc etc etc
But DON’T offer unsolicited “advice” telling them:
-how to bid
-how to raise children
-how to invest
-the science behind radars, complete with pictures drawn on the back of flight plan for 2.5 hours
-etc etc etc
Not saying Denny or anyone else here does any of the above, but there are unfortunately some who do. One man’s assessment, but I surmise that is mostly why FO’s gripe about otherwise decent human beings captains.
As a lower seniority captain who is closer to the age of most of the FOs with whom I fly, I gather that a lot of the beef FOs have with captains stems from the company’s communication to captains to fulfill the obligation set forth by the post-Colgan FAA mandate for each carrier to institute a “mentor program.” (Long sentence!)
Best I can figure, in-command and newhire mentors check that box. Additionally, captains are told early and often to mentor their FOs. I take this to mean, in no particular order:
-let the FOs learn specific fleet techniques at their own pace—eg, don’t impose techniques on an FO, and allow mistakes to happen so long as they are not egregious or dangerous
-make them aware of the crapper below B18 in ATL that is away from the hustle of the concourse
-show them out to get in the lounge in other hubs for long sits
-if they ask about PCS, share knowledge
-parking lot hacks
-etc etc etc
But DON’T offer unsolicited “advice” telling them:
-how to bid
-how to raise children
-how to invest
-the science behind radars, complete with pictures drawn on the back of flight plan for 2.5 hours
-etc etc etc
Not saying Denny or anyone else here does any of the above, but there are unfortunately some who do. One man’s assessment, but I surmise that is mostly why FO’s gripe about otherwise decent human beings captains.
F lounge is a hole in the wall for FAs. It is on the mid-level of the escalators to the train. Go down the first set, and do a 180, walking toward the do not enter section of security for connecting intl flights. In the corner you’ll see a sign for Delta in-flight. Use the jetway door code to get in.
Shutter in back, four computers, and a few chairs in which to lounge.
06-01-2019, 04:11 PM
#94
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2011
Posts: 534
Denny, I am totally smelling what you’re feeling. I get it.
Two anecdotes about the two people who were put on my avoid list when I was an FO, to give you examples.
First guy was during TA1 rejection. He was the radar guy I referenced earlier. Griped about losing 30k+/year to van driver on way to hotel one night. Bro, know your audience...driver might not break 30k this year! Yelled—not an exaggeration—at me for not telling a controller we were direct NEUTO after deviating as he handed us off. (I later verified with ZTL that it makes life much easier by telling the next controller instead of the handing-off controller). And he wondered out loud why he never got selected for the LCA program. Gee, I wonder. Life is too short for me to deal with such asshattery.
Second guy was a psycho. In fact, he called himself that. (God bless you 88Bs who have flown with him!)
I could deal with his ego until he committed the sin for which the CPO called me. Let’s just say not everyone—everybody except one—knows that the word “homos” is not acceptable in corporate America, especially in front of some of our FAs. I’m not afraid of the CPO, but I’d rather not have to speak that office about a dumbass other than myself on my day off. Waste my time off, don’t expect to fly with me again.
The captain who introduced himself by expressing relief that he was not flying with a “military prick” did not make it to the list, although I did swap trips when his name popped up again. (I took his comment as a compliment, as the Guard is not real military...or at least it wasn’t at one time.
All that being, while most folks are great, yes, there are posterior cavities in every seat. Respect to all you FOs out there...I appreciate you protecting my certificate and my livelihood every trip. If you got hate in your heart, by all means, let it out!
Oh, and Klondike Bear, your [sic] rill fuh-knee!
Two anecdotes about the two people who were put on my avoid list when I was an FO, to give you examples.
First guy was during TA1 rejection. He was the radar guy I referenced earlier. Griped about losing 30k+/year to van driver on way to hotel one night. Bro, know your audience...driver might not break 30k this year! Yelled—not an exaggeration—at me for not telling a controller we were direct NEUTO after deviating as he handed us off. (I later verified with ZTL that it makes life much easier by telling the next controller instead of the handing-off controller). And he wondered out loud why he never got selected for the LCA program. Gee, I wonder. Life is too short for me to deal with such asshattery.
Second guy was a psycho. In fact, he called himself that. (God bless you 88Bs who have flown with him!)
I could deal with his ego until he committed the sin for which the CPO called me. Let’s just say not everyone—everybody except one—knows that the word “homos” is not acceptable in corporate America, especially in front of some of our FAs. I’m not afraid of the CPO, but I’d rather not have to speak that office about a dumbass other than myself on my day off. Waste my time off, don’t expect to fly with me again.
The captain who introduced himself by expressing relief that he was not flying with a “military prick” did not make it to the list, although I did swap trips when his name popped up again. (I took his comment as a compliment, as the Guard is not real military...or at least it wasn’t at one time.
All that being, while most folks are great, yes, there are posterior cavities in every seat. Respect to all you FOs out there...I appreciate you protecting my certificate and my livelihood every trip. If you got hate in your heart, by all means, let it out!
Oh, and Klondike Bear, your [sic] rill fuh-knee!
06-01-2019, 04:19 PM
#95
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2014
Position: Widget Jet
Posts: 765
Originally Posted by ChecklistMonkey
You're right. It's my attitude that made the multiple Captains blow off, yell at and make flight attendants cry. I should definitely work on that. Lol
06-01-2019, 04:41 PM
#99
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2014
Posts: 128
Originally Posted by Denny Crane
So have you been on the perfect flight that requires no adapting? Our job is to adapt to changing situations AND the people we fly with.
Denny
Denny
06-01-2019, 04:43 PM
#100
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,116
Originally Posted by Hank Kingsley
Captain WOW? Been there, what a trip.
Saw his retirement foto in E lounge. Had just about every profanity in my vocabulary written on it.
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