MEC Alert
07-18-2019 | 05:26 AM
#71
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,465
Likes: 0
From: A330 First Officer
Your experience was very different from mine. No one was flying GS’s on the 727. What everyone was doing is flying GSWC. Every GSWC awarded put another trip in the pot. We had numerous cancelations when the stack got to big. Operationally Delta was a mess with lots of canceled flights across the network even after reducing scheduled flights by 2% Those statistics on canceled flights were how the company prevailed in court. The 3 judge panel ruled that even though the union did not start and in fact tried to get pilots to end the no GS campaign they had a duty to control their membership and big fines would follow. The same thing happened at American and APA was fined over 50 million dollars.
The 49er’s mentioned were not by the way just pilots harassing other pilots. I know one pilot personally who simply wrote one email to a friend asking him to only GSWC. It was nicely written without any harassing tone. That one email got him sued for 1 million dollars.
The 49er’s mentioned were not by the way just pilots harassing other pilots. I know one pilot personally who simply wrote one email to a friend asking him to only GSWC. It was nicely written without any harassing tone. That one email got him sued for 1 million dollars.
07-18-2019 | 09:49 AM
#74
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 12,845
Likes: 197
From: window seat
07-18-2019 | 12:50 PM
#75
Line Holder
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 833
Likes: 5
From: Captain
All the arguments you make have been made in the past, and I don’t like it any more than you, but history tells us the courts don’t buy into them. There have been some lower courts (just like in our case) that have more or less sided with labor, but eventually it seems like it always goes against us and the others like Hawaiian, American, United etc.
My point is that you may be 100% right in your argument, but the courts feel differently and anyone that goes down that path using those justifications for their defense need to do it with their eyes wide open.
07-18-2019 | 05:55 PM
#76
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 12,845
Likes: 197
From: window seat
I'm not even really making an argurment here I'm just wondering about the differing outcomes and what exact standard the union could be held to beyond flat out begging for certain things.
Some airlines had maintenence write up injunctions. The courts could do nothing about any legitimate write up. Could you imagine if pilots were capped to a "historical" quota and couldn't write up legitimate discrepancies required by law to be written up?
The union should do everything it can to ensure their end of the status quo is upheld to the best of their ability and let the process work as its laid out for both sides. That also applies to the other side. That means labor can cherry pick the best YoY reroute, commutability, productivity, time on hold awaiting legally mandated prospective rest during IROPs and a million other things.
Some airlines had maintenence write up injunctions. The courts could do nothing about any legitimate write up. Could you imagine if pilots were capped to a "historical" quota and couldn't write up legitimate discrepancies required by law to be written up?
The union should do everything it can to ensure their end of the status quo is upheld to the best of their ability and let the process work as its laid out for both sides. That also applies to the other side. That means labor can cherry pick the best YoY reroute, commutability, productivity, time on hold awaiting legally mandated prospective rest during IROPs and a million other things.
07-19-2019 | 06:41 PM
#77
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 403
Likes: 0
The union should do everything it can to ensure their end of the status quo is upheld to the best of their ability and let the process work as its laid out for both sides. That also applies to the other side. That means labor can cherry pick the best YoY reroute, commutability, productivity, time on hold awaiting legally mandated prospective rest during IROPs and a million other things.
We aren’t there yet, and I hope we don’t get there...I enjoy going to work, I enjoy working for the best airline imho. I don’t want that to go sour, it s really up to the company to keep this machine rolling, I will be glad and happy to do as much as I can to keep this big machine oiled and rolling.....
...but there is a timeline. I hope management realizes this and doesn’t poop away the goodwill we have or our competitive edge and pax loyalty.
07-21-2019 | 03:03 AM
#79
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 6,308
Likes: 304
I think this will drag out until guys start to get pizzed that it’s taken xyz years. Then they (I) will take matters into my/our own hands and stop going that extra mile....stop going downstairs for that stroller, stop saying goodbye to the pax, making those extra info pa’s, and never not once extend, and finally, stop picking up anything extra, or do anything but the minimum. That will eventually get the companies attention when enough guys are POed and feel and act that way.
We aren’t there yet, and I hope we don’t get there...I enjoy going to work, I enjoy working for the best airline imho. I don’t want that to go sour, it s really up to the company to keep this machine rolling, I will be glad and happy to do as much as I can to keep this big machine oiled and rolling.....
...but there is a timeline. I hope management realizes this and doesn’t poop away the goodwill we have or our competitive edge and pax loyalty.
We aren’t there yet, and I hope we don’t get there...I enjoy going to work, I enjoy working for the best airline imho. I don’t want that to go sour, it s really up to the company to keep this machine rolling, I will be glad and happy to do as much as I can to keep this big machine oiled and rolling.....
...but there is a timeline. I hope management realizes this and doesn’t poop away the goodwill we have or our competitive edge and pax loyalty.
What I'm curious about, and time will tell, is years down the road when folks are supposed to be getting ****ed, will the drastically changed demographics of the pilot group dampen how ****ed off pilots are? Deadzoners will be nearly gone and the majority of the pilot group would be the new generation of Delta pilots experiencing rapid advancement.
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07-21-2019 | 07:29 AM
#80
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 7,292
Likes: 0
From: A350 Both
I think this will drag out until guys start to get pizzed that it’s taken xyz years. Then they (I) will take matters into my/our own hands and stop going that extra mile....stop going downstairs for that stroller, stop saying goodbye to the pax, making those extra info pa’s, and never not once extend, and finally, stop picking up anything extra, or do anything but the minimum. That will eventually get the companies attention when enough guys are POed and feel and act that way.
We aren’t there yet, and I hope we don’t get there...I enjoy going to work, I enjoy working for the best airline imho. I don’t want that to go sour, it s really up to the company to keep this machine rolling, I will be glad and happy to do as much as I can to keep this big machine oiled and rolling.....
...but there is a timeline. I hope management realizes this and doesn’t poop away the goodwill we have or our competitive edge and pax loyalty.
We aren’t there yet, and I hope we don’t get there...I enjoy going to work, I enjoy working for the best airline imho. I don’t want that to go sour, it s really up to the company to keep this machine rolling, I will be glad and happy to do as much as I can to keep this big machine oiled and rolling.....
...but there is a timeline. I hope management realizes this and doesn’t poop away the goodwill we have or our competitive edge and pax loyalty.
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