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Old 07-16-2019 | 04:52 PM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by Der Meister
I'm not say a vesting schedule at all I was just saying at x years you get x amount of stock. So say just like our current vacation policy. Years 1-5 you get 5k, 5-10 you get 8.5k ect... and you get that amount each year. As to the exact amount for x longevity that would have to be negotiated. My example above is just that an example. I not saying that's how much we should get or at what rate of longevity.
Maybe I'm ignorant, but how is that better/different than getting 5k and buying 5k worth of Delta stock yourself?

Options are better because you have the option to buy at a lower value than market price usually. (Obviously more downside risk, but greater potential on the upside)
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Old 07-16-2019 | 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Der Meister
The way I see it if stock options are good for upper management then they are good for us. You could base it of longevity, and do a true up for the guys that have been here longer. While it might not equate to the 60% retirement it would be light years better then anything I have seen the union propos as of yet. And then for us newer guys we would get x amount each year on longevity.

Look at the late Steve jobs from apple yearly income $1... stock options a few million.... talk about a huge tax break...
Put options in my account on payday, and I'll take that all day and twice on Sunday.
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Old 07-16-2019 | 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by m3113n1a1
Maybe I'm ignorant, but how is that better/different than getting 5k and buying 5k worth of Delta stock yourself?

Options are better because you have the option to buy at a lower value than market price usually. (Obviously more downside risk, but greater potential on the upside)
Actually, in the current market, OTM puts are making far more money relatively speaking. Ya just gotta be ready to buy the stock or close out the position.
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Old 07-16-2019 | 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by m3113n1a1
Maybe I'm ignorant, but how is that better/different than getting 5k and buying 5k worth of Delta stock yourself?
Well if you enjoy paying taxes on that 5k so you actually have 3.5k to invest there is a 1.5k difference. Not to mention with stock options if you hold them for more then a year it's considered long term capital gains vs short term (35% vs 15%). And there is quite a difference in the taxes you pay. So my way you only pay tax when you sell it hopefully at 15% tax. Vs your way you pay tax on it twice once as income tax at 35% for the initial 5k then another 15% at longterm capital gains when you sell. So close to a 35% tax difference. Uncle Sam thanks you for your contributions.
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Old 07-16-2019 | 05:28 PM
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The biggest difference is you can’t lose money on options. There is no downside. There is lots of downside in a straight stock purchase. Trust me I am very good at the downside part!
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Old 07-16-2019 | 06:55 PM
  #66  
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Just grant each pilot X shares then, if this is a tax avoidance thing. No option price, vesting, and sell when you like for your own tax/risk reasons. It works for the BOD.
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Old 07-17-2019 | 07:34 AM
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Originally Posted by DALMD88FO
I guess you weren’t here back then. The 49ers were people posting people’s schedules and otherwise harassing people for flying GS. The company actually took the union to court because the pilot group was not flying the historical percentage of overtime that we normally did and got it labeled a job action and the court put an injunction on the union.
I was here. I remember that the company was afraid that flying would not be covered due to harassment by the 49ers. I do not remember any trips not getting covered or a significant decrease in green slips. I remember green slips being flown by different people who were not necessarily senior.

The bottom line is that there will always be enough pilots to fly green slips. The only limit will be their FAR block time limitations.
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Old 07-18-2019 | 03:29 AM
  #68  
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Originally Posted by ERflyer
I was here. I remember that the company was afraid that flying would not be covered due to harassment by the 49ers. I do not remember any trips not getting covered or a significant decrease in green slips. I remember green slips being flown by different people who were not necessarily senior.

The bottom line is that there will always be enough pilots to fly green slips. The only limit will be their FAR block time limitations.
Your experience was very different from mine. No one was flying GS’s on the 727. What everyone was doing is flying GSWC. Every GSWC awarded put another trip in the pot. We had numerous cancelations when the stack got to big. Operationally Delta was a mess with lots of canceled flights across the network even after reducing scheduled flights by 2% Those statistics on canceled flights were how the company prevailed in court. The 3 judge panel ruled that even though the union did not start and in fact tried to get pilots to end the no GS campaign they had a duty to control their membership and big fines would follow. The same thing happened at American and APA was fined over 50 million dollars.
The 49er’s mentioned were not by the way just pilots harassing other pilots. I know one pilot personally who simply wrote one email to a friend asking him to only GSWC. It was nicely written without any harassing tone. That one email got him sued for 1 million dollars.
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Old 07-18-2019 | 03:38 AM
  #69  
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Originally Posted by sailingfun
Your experience was very different from mine. No one was flying GS’s on the 727. What everyone was doing is flying GSWC. Every GSWC awarded put another trip in the pot. We had numerous cancelations when the stack got to big. Operationally Delta was a mess with lots of canceled flights across the network. Those statistics on canceled flights were how they prevailed in court. The judge ruled that even though the union did not start and in fact tried to get pilots to end the no GS campaign they had a duty to control their membership and big fines would follow. The same thing happened at American and APA was fined over 50 million dollars.

The 49er’s mentioned were not by the way just pilots harassing other pilots. I know one pilot personally who simply wrote one email to a friend asking him to only GSWC. It was nicely written without any harassing tone. That one email got him sued for 1 million dollars.
How did Delta find out about the email? Did he use company email or was his personal email subpoena'd?

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Old 07-18-2019 | 04:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Trip7
How did Delta find out about the email? Did he use company email or was his personal email subpoena'd?

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I suspect the pilot he emailed gave it to the CP’s office.
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