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Old 08-13-2019, 02:34 PM   #381  
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Originally Posted by Buck Rogers View Post
So a new hire at your RJ outfit got 11 days awarded on initial PBS award?

That is what you are trying to get me to believe

Where was that since I'd like to fact check it......I'm certain you wouldn't try to mislead anyone
To follow your logic, is everyone working 14 days here? No, some more and some less. You had your single data point and I had mine. I can also look up the line awards and see what more people are doing. In my category no one is working less than 13 days without vacation. ie, no one is working only 11 days so seniority or reg/res doesnít matter.

No, I never said a new hire works 11 days. Again, your words, not mine. I said that I worked a line with 11 days off. So you can say that I gave you a data point that covered the entire pilot group to be misleading but it would make your 14 day number the same thing.

You wouldnít be misleading people, would you buck?
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Old 08-13-2019, 02:46 PM   #382  
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No, the sophomoric premise is that you can take an isolated data point(especially one that appears to be massaged dreadfully) and act like it is not isolated and thus, totally achievable

We are negotiating a whole contract....very few data points are isolated. Most "gets" for one group are paid (or at least no gain)for by another section of the pilot group (straight line % increases in pay is the biggest outlier)

For example the simple proposal of greater DC contribution....sounds easy-peasy right?

Well, if you hit the 415c limit....you don't get PS on that DC excess....thus young guys are happy....old guys are not "just break even", they actually lose money
Are you saying that a greater company contribution to your retirement account hurts you?

Youíll have to break this one down, Iím not following your logic. DC contributions donít draw PS just the same as DPSP payments. Your account would max sooner and you would get a larger check sooner. Where is the penalty?
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Old 08-13-2019, 02:47 PM   #383  
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12,203 GS, 150 IAs, 4 GSWC, nope, no staffing issue here.
12,200+ voluntary hours.

IMO there is no critical staffing issue until GSWC are handed out like candy. A350A last year, 717B summer 16, and NYC7ERB couple summers ago are great examples of true critical staffing.

This summer was just a spike of GS due to JFK runway construction and rolling thunderstorms thru multiple hubs on a near daily basis in July. Even with all that GSWC was not needed often

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Old 08-13-2019, 02:48 PM   #384  
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I was like the number 5 of 180 FOs in NYC at Endeavor before I came here. I was mostly on military leave, but I remember my few full schedule months were generally three four day trips, twelve days total. They would credit about 78-80 hours. This was about two years ago.
OMG....you were in the top 3% and you worked 12 days for 79ish hours....not 10-11 days as Iceberg advertised?

You guys musta worked for different outfits

In my category, senior guys can work 9 days for 75 hours...the junior guys can work 9 days for 47.....maybe that needs to get fixed for the junior guys hunh?

Thanks for that data point Extenda
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Old 08-13-2019, 02:56 PM   #385  
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OMG....you were in the top 3% and you worked 12 days for 79ish hours....not 10-11 days as Iceberg advertised?

You guys musta worked for different outfits

In my category, senior guys can work 9 days for 75 hours...the junior guys can work 9 days for 47.....maybe that needs to get fixed for the junior guys hunh?

Thanks for that data point Extenda

Ie... "I cant understand how our current contract is lacking compared to not only other peer airlines but also regional airlines. So I will belittle those who have other views then mine; because I can't figure out that they are advocating for a better QOL for all. Then I will state how much I gave up for you to be here and have a job. I will say my plight is far worse then yours so you just have to deal with the suck."

This is exactly what you sound like. I don't understand how bringing in outside information on other operations and contracts is a bad thing especially in the negotiating environment we are currently in. We should be exploring every opportunity we can to get the biggest net gain we can on our next contract.
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Old 08-13-2019, 03:00 PM   #386  
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Are you saying that a greater company contribution to your retirement account hurts you?

Youíll have to break this one down, Iím not following your logic. DC contributions donít draw PS just the same as DPSP payments. Your account would max sooner and you would get a larger check sooner. Where is the penalty?
I didn't explain that very well....shorthand for comparing straight line pay rates to increased DC contributions(wasn't very clear)

A straight line pay rate will always get profit sharing.

Bumping up the DC contribution is usually misunderstood by junior guys as the same as straight line pay rates cause the senior guy will hit the 415c limit quicker and then it just rolls over to DC excess so same/same in their mind cause they won't hit the 415c limit and get DC excess. So for them the 2 approaches are the same.

Unfortunately, DC excess doesn't get PS therefore all the DC excess loses 16ish% for the senior guy, all the while the junior guys are smiling


I think this is all correct(to the best of my memory)...if inaccurate it will be pointed out

Clear(er) now?
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Old 08-13-2019, 03:05 PM   #387  
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We just need guys/gals or whatever pronoun applies to start holding out for GSWC
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Old 08-13-2019, 03:08 PM   #388  
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Ie... "I cant understand how our current contract is lacking compared to not only other peer airlines but also regional airlines. So I will belittle those who have other views then mine; because I can't figure out that they are advocating for a better QOL for all. Then I will state how much I gave up for you to be here and have a job. I will say my plight is far worse then yours so you just have to deal with the suck."

This is exactly what you sound like. I don't understand how bringing in outside information on other operations and contracts is a bad thing especially in the negotiating environment we are currently in. We should be exploring every opportunity we can to get the biggest net gain we can on our next contract.
Der Meister,

Maybe English is your second language, but you missed something in the translation. I never said anything about my career , what I gave up or anything else.

My curiosity peeked when Iceberg said he worked 10-11 day at his former employer. I was looking for input to clarify that statement

Capice?
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Old 08-13-2019, 03:11 PM   #389  
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I didn't explain that very well....shorthand for comparing straight line pay rates to increased DC contributions(wasn't very clear)

A straight line pay rate will always get profit sharing.

Bumping up the DC contribution is usually misunderstood by junior guys as the same as straight line pay rates cause the senior guy will hit the 415c limit quicker and then it just rolls over to DC excess so same/same in their mind cause they won't hit the 415c limit and get DC excess. So for them the 2 approaches are the same.

Unfortunately, DC excess doesn't get PS therefore all the DC excess loses 16ish% for the senior guy, all the while the junior guys are smiling


I think this is all correct(to the best of my memory)...if inaccurate it will be pointed out

Clear(er) now?
I think I got you. As an example, youíre saying pay rates +10% vs. pay rates +6% and DC +4%. I didnít catch that the first time, I see your point.
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Old 08-13-2019, 03:24 PM   #390  
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Der Meister,

Maybe English is your second language, but you missed something in the translation. I never said anything about my career , what I gave up or anything else.

My curiosity peeked when Iceberg said he worked 10-11 day at his former employer. I was looking for input to clarify that statement

Capice?
A big 10-4 buddy. You just got caught up in the pages of muck that is APC. But yes my first language was gibberish so normally I can follow along quite well on APC. Haha
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