Sounds like a self created crisis to present to the NMB.

Company: We can't possibly increase vacation availability and credit because our hiring is at full capacity and we have optimized our summer therefore DALPA's QOL items are complete over reach and unobtainable.

One of those “extra” Thanksgiving weeks. I feel stupid now for bidding it as I’ve never had a problem getting that week off without vacation. With the weeks available I thought I’d be a stretch for a July week (only month that works for my whole family to go based on other commitments) but thought if not, I’d hold Christmas. On the bright side, I won’t have to bid around Thanksgiving to get it off this year.

All the vacations pushed into the offseason will just force the use of ivd/apd(hopefully pd) and the manning problem remains. There will still only be x amount of pilots Willing to fly. All this does is force open time to blossom after bid awards come out, which is less manageable and more expensive then just letting pilots enjoy their pre posted weeks off.

Everyone keeps talking about using IVD's this summer and IVD's only have to have coverage the same as an APD, except for the exception dates in the PWA, so I wonder how long it will take the company to come to the union for relief from this contractual right when the wheels fall off the wagon this summer.

Good luck with that. They can ask all they want. IVD/APD's are the only card we have left to play when coverage is (always) in the negative. If you don't mind taking a pay hit, and making it up later, it's a nice option to have to get needed time off.

The company wanted to reduce *allegedly abusive sick calls, so IVD's were negotiated as a way for pilots to ethically access time off. I don't see the pilot group being real willing to give them back unless we abolish sick leave verification.

APD and IVD removed trips can be paid out of the vacation bank.

So next year when Feb is back to normal we will increase 50% by that explanation.

BS

100 %, actually.

Someone should ask BS that same question.

For clarification, you can put an IVD on a trip to drop it and will be paid the value of the vacation day(s) you use to drop the trip. You will not get trip value. APDs are not paid. Correct me if I’m wrong.

This. 4th floor guys told me that they were begging for hiring, and it was purposely being delayed to prop up profits (read stock price).

How convenient that no matter what we ask for now in manning concessions the company can say that there is no way for them to grant them because they will never be able to catch up on hiring and training to agree to a manning concession (read QOL for pilots).

Your peers will fall all over themselves to get GS#2 or #3. Did you not see how this past year went?

I think he meant the Full Service Bank. You can pay yourself any amount out of your bank in any month in which you have not been awarded a green slip. If you have been awarded a green slip you can only pay yourself 5:00 in that bid period.

pwa 23.i.18.

That’s interesting. I didn’t know you could request to be paid the whole rotation value from your vacation bank. 23.I.11.f and 7.I.3 seem to contradict that and I honestly don’t understand how they all mesh.

There is no conflict, the normal process is 23.I.11.f. The 23.I.18 recovery of pay and credit is at the request of the pilot. This will leave your vacation bank short when the impacted vacation is later taken.

Ok. I wasn’t sure how that would actually work in practice. Seems like it could hurt you later for bidding. You could end up with six vacation days blocked on your calendar (which you can’t bid a trip over) with a total credit remaining of say 5:15 (used one IVD to drop a 21:00 trip).

You just have to inform scheduling that you want to use vacation bank hours to cover the trip. It will be coded VACB on your line. You are correct about the short pay later. I normally bid reserve during vacation months for the credit advantage and then take a few hours out of my full service bank. By doing it this way I get better value for the hours and the vacation I want.

You can cover the remaining value of the trip out of your vacation bank if you have time remaining unused.

This is true but not what I was getting at.

23.I.18. explains what you can use vacation bank for.

Wow. Thanks for pointing this one out. Can't believe I wasn't aware of this option before.

So what happens if I drop a 15:45 3-day, and have scheduling pull that much time from my "vacation bank time"? Which week does this come from? Do we just tell them which one we want?

Also, this would leave 8:45 left in a typical VAC week (not primary or secondary.) How does that work when you get into that vacation month for PBS purposes?

It's not quite 3 days remaining (at 3:30/day) but more than 2. Seems like it would have to be treated differently whether you're REG or RES.

This is a nice thing to keep in mind for the extra 4th or 5th week that always seems to fall in February.

Your days and bank time are separate but normally a day is used with the corespondent hour value. I view it completely differently. The vacation bank is a pot to draw from and the days are off days to use as I need them. Both have restrictions. With IVD, PD, and APDs I get access to vacation bank hours and the days off I want. With vacation move up, vacation slide and vacation any bids, I get days off I want. When used in conjunction with the full service bank it all washes out at the end of the year and my pay is exactly even and my QOL is much improved. There are some nice green slip benefits to if used correctly but that’s the 400 level and graduate stuff.

I'm still not sure I follow.

Are you saying I can PD a 3 day trip in January, and get paid for it from my vacation bank time, and still retain the full 7 days in say March? I would just get paid 15:45 (or the value of the trip) less for those 7 days?

Are you basically just choosing when you want to get paid for the VAC time?

And just to clarify, Vacation Bank Time and the Full Service Bank are two separate pots right? You seem to be using them interchangeably above.

Yes, days of vacation only have a specific value when the vacation bank is filled based on the number of week you get.

They are two completely different banks with their own usage restrictions. If you are short during a month with vacation days (or any month) you can pull time from the full service bank.

Thanks for the info. Will definitely be filing this one away.

The choice allows you substantial additional time off in the summer when many prefer it.

My understanding is that you can use an IVD to drop a 3 day trip in January, either get partial or full pay from the vacation bank and then you get 6 days in march. You used 1 vacation day to drop the trip, you then choose if you reduce the value of the remaining 6.

Gotcha.

So if I bid reserve in March, how are the X days pro-rated? Seems like this may be a workaround to get more time off if you don’t mind going lower on pay in one or both months?

Say I choose to take the pay/credit in January. Now those vacation days would be worth less in March. Do we still enter the X day table in the same row regardless of the value of the days?

Yes, it's dependent on the number of days, your bank amont has nothing to do with it.

So in this example if you took 24.5 hours from the vacation bank (7 days worth) to cover a IVD trip, would those 7 vac days in March still exist with no credit time attached to them? In other words would there be 7 days blocked of on your schedule for vacation with no opportunity for bidding a trip during that period? If so, that’s a real downside to using vac bank hours for a IVD trip drop.

The number of days removed is the number of days specified in the IVD. I use 1 day twice to remove 2 trips.

Ok that makes sense. So in theory if you IVD a 4 day trip with 4 IVD days, then request through crew scheduling to actually use exactly 24.5 vac bank hours to cover it (versus the normal 3.5x4=14 hrs through regular IVD days) you would have 3 vac days left in the donor month with no credit attached to them. Is that right?

To put it simply,

IVD usage reduces the number of days of vacation that you have

VACB usage reduces the number of hours of vacation that you have

For me personally, time off is more important than pay so I use a few VACB days a year instead of IVD's.

Most people who use their vacation bank are doing so to reach the GS trigger. If you are very short of time for a vacation week Vacation any can be a effective bidding tool.

ummmm, you do realize you can buy additional days of vacation with your bank and use them as an IVD.

Yes but then I’m negative on my bank. I bid reserve and never have the ability to refill it.

Good point....for myself working a line, it’s pretty awesome. Buying to 2 extra days of Vacation to drop 2 trips costs only me 7:30 (temporarily anyway).....

Monthly update email confirms a Jan 17 AE release.